3D MVC Option

[sinious]

Who would want to take beautiful 1920x2205 frame packed signals and turn them into quarter resolution HSBS? Nobody would do that. The panel itself shouldn't even let you in this case. Interleave or checkerboard or any other style has better merits than converting fhd3d into HSBS. And if you have a masters in image processing then you already know how you'd turn 2 full frames into either technique. Pick an algorithm, mix the frames, display..

[fetef]

If you feed your passive display frame packed input, 1920 by 540p for each eye is what you will see. That's what your TV does, you don't need to tell it to do anything. effectively that's the same result as feeding it a HTAB 2D input, and turning the TV onto HTAB mode. I hope we can all agree on this and move on

[sinious]

Haha yes, agreed.

Can I return to my original question about headers/EDID/etc? I originally really wanted to know if MakeMKV is capable of encoding a MVC MKV with "something" in the metadata/etc that would tell my TV what mode (TAB/SBS) the content was encoded with. This is because I'm creating the content myself and my software (After Effects / Premiere / 3ds Max) does not do this.

I do see the metadatainfo way of adding in the headers later and thanks for that, but if MakeMKV does this then it's worth buying to me. I just want to generate 3D and when I play it through my Xbox One (which has no issue passing on HSBS EDID from my cable box to my TV), I'd like my own content to also trigger the TV into the correct mode... HTAB!

[fetef]

Unfortunately, this is the limitation of MVC MKV files: there are so few decoding options available. Makemkv have done an awesome job of making the MVC option available, but software and hardware providers seem to be a bit behind at the moment. People have reported success using Stereoscopic Player(with the right hardware configuration), Mede8er boxes and newer Samsung devices(if remuxed to m2ts). AFAIK Xbox one doesn't support decoding of MVC, meaning you need to feed it HTAB if you want your 3D. And I know of no software or hardware solution for converting on the fly, though there are commercial solutions for converting 3D disks to HTAB, but I'm not going to advertise them here.

[sinious]

Oh well, the 3d button, I shall push. Not the end of the world.

Thanks for info

[docchris]

I originally really wanted to know if MakeMKV is capable of encoding a MVC MKV with "something" in the metadata/etc that would tell my TV what mode (TAB/SBS) the content was encoded with. This is because I'm creating the content myself and my software (After Effects / Premiere / 3ds Max) does not do this.

Again, i dont understand the question.

if you are making an MVC MKV, then there is no TAB or SBS... its MVC... which is full frames?

[Nightopian]

Does anyone know if the built in subtitles for a 3D movie are stored on the second frame? Reason I'm asking is I was just watching a 3D MVC MKV which has a scene with a built in subtitle, however as I was watching it in 2D the subtitles were missing???

Any idea if this is a fault with makemkv or will it appear if I watch it in 3D?

[docchris]

subtitles are not part of the frames, they are stored separate, basically as text...

how your player displays them is up to it

[Batiatus]

So any actual new news on the player front? Stereoscopic still really the only software player to work? Nothing coming from PDVD or TMT (likely with Cinavea)? What about just the standard codecs? Been away from things for awhile and still tough to find this info.

[docchris]

nothing has changed

powerdvd support insisted that it could, and told me to download the trial

so i did

then they said it that was restricted to the full software, and wasnt included in the trail version

so i bought it

and it still didnt

so they had to refund me

[sinious]

Again, i dont understand the question.

if you are making an MVC MKV, then there is no TAB or SBS... its MVC... which is full frames?

You're familiar with Matroska right? It's not a codec, it's a container. A container that is fully capable of menus, chapters, multiple audio and video streams, etc. I have been embedding multiple streams and menus in MKV for 4 years. So I assume the same general qualities of MKV are retained with MVC MKV. One source is simply frame packed with corresponding audio. ANOTHER stream could contain an already condensed HTAB source, with the magic ingredient I came here asking about in the first place, the metadata to pass along the 'format' of 3D being used (HTAB/HSBS/Interleave/etc).

And finally, if that's not possible, then to just create a HTAB source (not frame packed, half resolution HTAB) and have the correct metadata/headers on the MKV to alert what is reading the file of the contents (3D HTAB).

That's the pursuit of MKV. To be the all in one media container, modularly expandable with full metadata (tags) support. You can read it on their own site. So I have no reason to believe I can'd do one of the above. That's why I asked if MakeMKV could do either.

Hopefully that clarifies it for you.

I realize you think there's no reason to include HTAB when full frames are available, and in some cases you're right. However my software will generate excellent HTAB that will look superior in comparison to some TVs chopping up a jumbo frame. I have more control on each eyes 540 lines of detail and can mix them using much more sophisticated algorithms. As you should know with your masters and PHD, each piece of content will benefit from a different encoding algorithm, and I don't think TVs alternate the way they reduce frame packed based on content. So my HTAB will be better than frame packed reduced to 540p, so I want to include it in my MVC MKV as an alternate source.

[docchris]

actually that makes it MUCH clearer, and im aware that MKV is just a container

but MVC IS a codec

but you kept on saying you wanted your MVC video to flag whether it was HSBS of HTAB, which is nonsense, because its neither, its MVC...

the bit i wasnt clear about was that you wanted BOTH an MVC AND ALSO an HSBS or HTAB video stream

(although im not sure why you would want both , just pick one or the other or else you will have a ridiculously large file)

(by all means keep both - but in separate files)

[sinious]

Just for the reasons I already said. On a passive TV where I'm forced to have 540 lines of vertical detail per eye, I want the best quality vertical reduction technique for the specific content I'm encoding. Multimedia content is excessively crisp and sharp versus movies which are smooth and soft. I would use an entirely different process to vertically reduce that resolution for HTAB for each.

What I don't think is a TV is going to actually scan the full MVC jumbo frames to choose a reduction or exclusion method that best suits the content. I think the TV is just going to have "one way to reduce it" (choose every other line, do a bit of a field mix, etc) and do that for all content.

So I'd choose to have huge files (MVC full jumbo frames and yes, a HTAB tacked along as a different source, 2 of the same movie in a single file). Because remember, MKV is also transport/stream friendly by design so only the stream I choose is going to be sent. Putting them in separate files when they're read off a home NAS is just creating tons of duplicate files.

But either way, I never wanted MVC to signal HTAB/HSBS/etc, I want the HTAB source in the MKV to contain the metadata to trigger 3D HTAB.

I figure one of two things. One, maybe my LG unit which you pointed out tries to shoot "both fields" at each 540p eyes lines of resolution at a very fast rate to sort of faux add more detail. I don't know if it works, but if it does, I want the MVC source in my MKV so I can use it. And if I ditch the passive TV and get active, I'll already have full frames. But for now, I can reduce my network stress and choose the HTAB source, mixed with the best suited method of vertical reduction that I've prepared in advance, from one MKV file. Nice and clean, but at the cost of disk space (I have 30 terabytes and most full HD movies are under 1GB).

[docchris]

i'd have been inclined to keep them as separate files , so that way they can either be identified by filename or file type or storage location, so send MVC to MVC capable players and HSBS/HTAB to players/TVs better suited to those. but i guess aside from keeping track of it all, you'd end up duplicating audio streams which would be a waste of space

well makeMKV will only remux the MVC stream to a regular MKV for you

obviously you have your own software to convert the MVC to HSBS/HTAB

so then you'd have to use MKVMerge to mux the MVC videos stream and HSBS/HTAB video stream into a single file - and you can specify the type of stereoscopy for the HSBS/HATB stream in MKVmerge GUI easily

which i imagine is the workflow you are proposing?

So thats the file fine, i think?

but i dont know of any way for any player to signal to a TV that the 2D picture it is sending is in fact HSBS/HTAB... whether you have flags in the file or not. If that kind of signalling were possible, i would have expected that there would be at least some players with a "3D" button to let you manually specify this for files which didnt have the flag (rather than / just as you would tell your TV that the 2D picture is in fact HSBS/HTAB and needs to be processed accordingly)

a "smart" (as in intelligent, not as in packed full of shitty apps, lol) TVs could probably figure it out from looking at the picture, which is a feature im surprised isnt more common

What NAS have you got? (out of curiosity - its not relevant, haha)

[docchris]

so i did some half-assed googling, and it looks like it might be possible to order TVs to change into SBS/HTAB mode over HDMI, if im reading this correctly?

http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=163475

so i guess you "just" need to find a player which can read the flag from the MKV and send the correct signal to the TV?