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 Post subject: UHD drives
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:18 pm 
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TLDR: Buy internal or external ASUS BW-16* drive and do not update its firmware.

At the moment there are two types of BD drives that can read UHD discs – “official” UHD drives and so-called “UHD-friendly” drives.

The “official” UHD drives do implement AACS2 protection, which means that in order just to read the data from the disc the software must present the AACS2 host certificate. At the time of this writing no such certs are publicly available, and certainly MakeMKV doesn't have one. This means that at the moment MakeMKV cannot even make a non-decrypted full disc backup of an UHD disc from such drive.

The “UHD-friendly” drives are regular BD drives that just happen to read BDXL media but do not implement AACS2 protection. One cannot use these with “official” software, but such drive allows reading UHD discs by any software with a regular AACS1 host certificate. In practice it means that MakeMKV can read these discs and can make a non-decrypted full disc backup. If a volume key is known for the disc ( see http://www.makemkv.com/faq/item/12 ) then MakeMKV could open the disc directly or could open a previously created full disc backup.
Same thing applies to many other software, including libbluray – having a “UHD-friendly” drive, a configuration file with a current AACS1 host certificate and disc-specific volume key, one can open a UHD disc in handbrake, VLC, or any other libbluray-based software.

Overall, the “UHD-friendly” drive is the best drive one can have at the moment. There are two known issues with these drives:
1. Some LG drives have trouble reading certain UHD media
2. All drives have a bug where drive “jams” the disc after it goes into power saving mode.
With current version of MakeMKV it means that you have to choose titles/tracks very fast after you open the disc – once the drive becomes quiet and disc stops spinning, you will get read errors after you press “Make MKV” button. The workaround is to make a full disc backup first. The next version of MakeMKV will have a workaround, so the clicking haste would no longer be necessary.

The “DeUHD” guys (as a note, buying their software is a waste of money, as it will likely become obsolete in a few months) invented the “UHD-friendly” classification and do maintain a current list of all drives which is presented below. The absolute best “UHD-friendly” drive at the moment is ASUS BW-16* series. It is cheap, fast, excellent writer, reads all discs, and comes as internal or USB3 external. More importantly it is future-proof, as it is not subject to AACS2 revocation. Buying this drive (for a price comparable to a single UHD disc) is highly recommended.

A very important note – whether you have an “official” UHD drive or an “UHD-friendly” drive, do not update its firmware under any circumstances. Firmware update cannot fix disc reading or standby issues, but easily can do many bad things to your drive. Just don't do it, no matter how tempting it looks.
Code:
UHD friendly drives:

    LG BE16NU50
    LG WH16NS40
    LG BH16NS40
    ASUS BW-12B1ST
    ASUS BC-12D2HT
    ASUS BW-16D1HT
    LG BH16NS55
    LG WH16NS58

UHD official drives:

    LG WH16NS60
    LG BU40N
    LG BU50N


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 Post subject: Re: UHD drives
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:22 pm
Posts: 9
mike admin wrote:
The “UHD-friendly” drives are regular BD drives that just happen to read BDXL media but do not implement AACS2 protection. One cannot use these with “official” software, but such drive allows reading UHD discs by any software with a regular AACS1 host certificate. In practice it means that MakeMKV can read these discs and can make a non-decrypted full disc backup. If a volume key is known for the disc ( see http://www.makemkv.com/faq/item/12 ) then MakeMKV could open the disc directly or could open a previously created full disc backup.
Same thing applies to many other software, including libbluray – having a “UHD-friendly” drive, a configuration file with a current AACS1 host certificate and disc-specific volume key, one can open a UHD disc in handbrake, VLC, or any other libbluray-based software.

Overall, the “UHD-friendly” drive is the best drive one can have at the moment. There are two known issues with these drives:
1. Some LG drives have trouble reading certain UHD media
2. All drives have a bug where drive “jams” the disc after it goes into power saving mode.
With current version of MakeMKV it means that you have to choose titles/tracks very fast after you open the disc – once the drive becomes quiet and disc stops spinning, you will get read errors after you press “Make MKV” button. The workaround is to make a full disc backup first. The next version of MakeMKV will have a workaround, so the clicking haste would no longer be necessary.


Ok, a lot of that is over my head, but following your link to the FAQ and then to the thread on doom9 I found this post http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1826296#post1826296. If I follow the above correctly does that mean if I take the info from that post on doom9 and save it to a txt file in a specific MakeMKV directory, that I would then be able to open a UHD disc (providing it was included in that key list) and extract the desired tracks to an mkv? I've got an LG WH16NS40 and Makemkv can indeed read them, it just can't open them for track selection. Super excited to try this out if that is indeed the case!

I've just upgraded my home theater setup to handle 4k and getting up to actually put a disc in the player is already getting old. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: UHD drives
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:24 pm 
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That's interesting... I have an LG BU40N (which doesn't have any UHD branding on it), but am able to navigate through the UHD discs in Finder (I'm on macOS) and was able to provide dumps. Having this drive, does that mean support for it will take longer?


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 Post subject: Re: UHD drives
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:46 pm 
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Posts: 4617
Now I have to go out and buy something with a 4K disk, since my LG is allegedly supports them.

Although I did just order a USB3 version of the ASUS.... ;)

Update: The LG BH16NS40 may be on the list, but its firmware must also be important. Mine is from 2013, and it says "no disk loaded" when a UHD is inserted.

The ASUS BW-16D1X-U arrived a few days ago, along with The Martian in UHD. It, too, reports "no disk loaded" for the UHD disk, but works for BD.

Both tested with 1.10.8 running on Win7 Pro.

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 Post subject: Re: UHD drives
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:42 pm 
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Woodstock wrote:
Update: The LG BH16NS40 may be on the list, but its firmware must also be important. Mine is from 2013, and it says "no disk loaded" when a UHD is inserted.

No this is not about firmware, its about the hardware. The label should say "SVC code: NS50"


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 Post subject: Re: UHD drives
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:45 pm 
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Woodstock wrote:
The ASUS BW-16D1X-U arrived a few days ago, along with The Martian in UHD. It, too, reports "no disk loaded" for the UHD disk, but works for BD.

This is wrong. What is the manufacture date (on the drive label) or firmware date (in makemkv info pane)?


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 Post subject: Re: UHD drives
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:26 pm 
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The ASUS does not list a date for the firmware in MakeMKV, just "Revision: E101". The ASSEMBLY has a manufacture date of "June 2017", but I haven't opened the case to see what the drive itself says. Bus encryption flags "1B".

The LG shows a firmware date of "2113-04-04 22:50:" (yes, I know that's 96 years in the future, but that's what MakeMKV reports). Bus encryption flags "17". Checking tags would mean disassembly of the computer.

Both drives are marked as BDXL compatible.

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 Post subject: Re: UHD drives
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:05 am 
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FWIW, I was able to copy Mad Max Fury Road with a newly-arrived ASUS BW-16D1HT which reports:
Drive Information
OS device name: /dev/sr0
Manufacturer: ASUS
Product: BW-16D1HT
Revision: 3.00
Serial number: <redacted>
Firmware date: 2115-11-03 11:10:
Bus encryption flags: 1F
Highest AACS version: 63
I neglected to look at the date of manufacture before I installed it.


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 Post subject: Re: UHD drives
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:23 pm 
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Woodstock wrote:
The ASUS does not list a date for the firmware in MakeMKV, just "Revision: E101". The ASSEMBLY has a manufacture date of "June 2017", but I haven't opened the case to see what the drive itself says. Bus encryption flags "1B".

Then it is a bad drive. I honestly did not know that BW-16* drives could be non-DLDS. It means that BW-16D1X-U is a no-go, and "HT" version is required.

Woodstock wrote:
The LG shows a firmware date of "2113-04-04 22:50:" (yes, I know that's 96 years in the future, but that's what MakeMKV reports). Bus encryption flags "17". Checking tags would mean disassembly of the computer.

In this specific case, it might be actually worth to update firmware.


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 Post subject: Re: UHD drives
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:08 am 
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I have an old (Dec 2014) Pioneer BDR-XD05B that I barely used, it's supposed to support BDXL. Tried the only UHD I have (Passengers) and it spins for a while, and then ultimately will not recognize the disc at all.

RoundRobin wrote:
FWIW, I was able to copy Mad Max Fury Road with a newly-arrived ASUS BW-16D1HT which reports

Thanks for mentioning a confirmed good drive! I'm hopefully picking up that same drive tomorrow, so we'll see what happens after that.


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 Post subject: Re: UHD drives
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:07 pm 
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HUGE thanks to Mike for your ongoing dedication to MakeMKV, we have UHD liftoff :)

Used the ASUS BW-16D1HT successfully with Passengers.

Sigh... just when I started catching up on Blu-ray, now I have to start a UHD collection :)

I never thought this day would arrive so soon!


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 Post subject: Re: UHD drives
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:54 pm 
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Update on the LG BH16NS40 - it's listing should be updated to say that it MUST be the "NS50" version. Mine is not, and no firmware update from LG seems to make it compatible.

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 Post subject: Re: UHD drives
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:07 pm 
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preserve wrote:
I have an old (Dec 2014) Pioneer BDR-XD05B that I barely used, it's supposed to support BDXL. Tried the only UHD I have (Passengers) and it spins for a while, and then ultimately will not recognize the disc at all.

I have the same drive. Well not exactly the same as it is the silver version it is called BDR-XD05TS. But technical it‘s the same and I have the same problem like you. The disc spins and can‘t be recognized until it‘s been ejected finally. Pioneer claims that it‘s able to read BDXL.

So this is my question to all of you. Does this mean that not every drive that is capable of reading BDXL can be called „UHD friendly“ and we have to get the models mentioned above / published on the DeUHD website?

Edit: I just tried a Matshita UJ262 Drive, same problem. By the way the disc I tried is The Revenant (European version) as one person in this forum claims that this disc worked for him with the leaked keys.


Last edited by Kazzor7492 on Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: UHD drives
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:19 am 
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I have the ASUS BW-12B1ST. Tried some UHD disks but its not reading them.
The drive isnt capable of BD-XL disks so that might be why.

Maybe some UHD disks are burned on regular BD instead of BDXL?


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 Post subject: Re: UHD drives
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:51 am 
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I believe pretty much all UHDs use BDs instead of BDXL.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I believe discs with 50 GB capacity are in the spec, but no studios are using them.


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