MakeMKV files vs original VIDEO_TS/.IFO for archival/future proofing purposes?

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mkv_srg
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:01 pm

MakeMKV files vs original VIDEO_TS/.IFO for archival/future proofing purposes?

Post by mkv_srg » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:49 pm

Hi all,

Sorry for the length of this post - I’ve exhausted a few days of research unable to find the exact answers I’m looking for so apologies if this does happen to have been covered elsewhere.

Is there any downside to having ripped MakeMKV files vs DVD files in their original VIDEO_TS/.IFO format, specifically for archival/future proofing purposes?

I have a selection of DVDs that I’ve copied over to my computer in their untouched original VIDEO_TS/.IFO structure and I’m considering ripping all of these with MakeMKV and deleting the VIDEO_TS/.IFO files. I have already disposed a lot of the DVDs themselves as I’m trying to reduce the physical media I own and essentially want to have an uncompressed and digitised ‘master’ archival version of these DVDs that I can confidently use indefinitely into the future to convert to any format as technologies and formats evolve.

I am worried that I might rip everything via MakeMKV, delete the original VIDEO_TS/.IFO files, and then in 10 years realise that I should have kept the original files.

If I were to take a MakeMKV ripped DVD file and load it into Handbrake, would I be missing out on any options (or quality) that I would get it I loaded the original VIDEO_TS/.IFO files instead? I don’t care about loosing the DVD menus and chapters - I just care about having everything else preserved and uncompressed so I can do whatever I want with it in the future.

Does MakeMKV allow retaining all audio tracks (and in different languages where applicable) uncompressed? I know the video remains uncompressed. Subtitles are essential - I know it preserves them, but can it preserve all languages (again, where applicable)? I am also considering creating Handbrake converted copies for Direct Play in Plex, but know playing subtitles can throw things off entirely so want complete flexibility to muck around with the subtitles should I have to. Can I extract subtitles from a MakeMKV file to convert them (or have as a separate file if need be)?

On a side note, I have a HTPC which I would play the MakeMKV rips on (with VLC), but I may considering adding the raw rips into my Plex library to see how it copes with transcoding these files. Specs of my computer below in case it’s required.

iMac (21.5-inch, Mid 2011)
2.8 GHz Intel Core i7
32 GB 1333 MHz DDR3

Thanks a heap to anyone who can help on this!

Woodstock
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Re: MakeMKV files vs original VIDEO_TS/.IFO for archival/future proofing purposes?

Post by Woodstock » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:09 pm

MakeMKV will save all audio and subtitle tracks if you want it to, and the video is what was on the source disk as far as compression. It also assembles the various files into coherent video files, rather than relying on a future program to reconstruct them from the raw files.
How to aid in finding the answer to your problem: https://www.makemkv.com/faq/item/8

thetoad
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Re: MakeMKV files vs original VIDEO_TS/.IFO for archival/future proofing purposes?

Post by thetoad » Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:51 am

the main advantage of mkv over ifo/iso structure is that ifo/iso structure hides multiple things inside of it, this doesn't play nice with "media centers" like kodi / plex, which only provide one entry per media

the main advantage(s) of keeping it in info structure is if you like menus and if you want to make sure you don't miss any extras in your process of moving from ifo to mkv.

a secondary advantage of converting to mkv is that it generally takes up less space (even for the same content,), not huge amounts, but could be of value. Can save even more if you don't save the foreign audio tracks you don't care about.

With that said, mkv conversion takes time. if the only point is to have an archival format, there's no real negative leaving it the way it is and not waste time on it, i.e. dvd playback is well understood and doesn't require anything extra (unlike blurays, which require java, which could conceptually disappear). If one really was worried about archival, I might save everything as an iso, and either create a par2 set for the single iso or for a lagrer set of ISOs. but that would take serious cpu / memory resources.

mkv_srg
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:01 pm

Re: MakeMKV files vs original VIDEO_TS/.IFO for archival/future proofing purposes?

Post by mkv_srg » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:24 pm

Woodstock wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:09 pm
It also assembles the various files into coherent video files, rather than relying on a future program to reconstruct them from the raw files.
Agreed that coherent video files sounds better than relying on future program to reconstruct from raw files (so long as .MKV continues to be supported well into the future of course).
thetoad wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:51 am
the main advantage of mkv over ifo/iso structure is that ifo/iso structure hides multiple things inside of it, this doesn't play nice with "media centers" like kodi / plex, which only provide one entry per media
Yes, I've experienced Plex not supporting ifo/iso structures and when loading instead via VLC, I find it a pain to navigate the DVD menus so from that perspective it makes complete sense to rely on the MakeMKV rips and dispose of the raw original structured files.
the main advantage(s) of keeping it in info structure is if you like menus and if you want to make sure you don't miss any extras in your process of moving from ifo to mkv.
Happy to discard menus, but will capture some extras if I think they are interesting.
a secondary advantage of converting to mkv is that it generally takes up less space (even for the same content,), not huge amounts, but could be of value. Can save even more if you don't save the foreign audio tracks you don't care about.
Yes, I've noticed this and it's part of the reason I'm considering to move in this direction. Won't save that much space but it's enough to make it worthwhile for me.
With that said, mkv conversion takes time. if the only point is to have an archival format, there's no real negative leaving it the way it is and not waste time on it, i.e. dvd playback is well understood and doesn't require anything extra (unlike blurays, which require java, which could conceptually disappear). If one really was worried about archival, I might save everything as an iso, and either create a par2 set for the single iso or for a lagrer set of ISOs. but that would take serious cpu / memory resources.
The advantages of been able to integrate the MakeMKV rips into Plex (or just being able to load files easier via VLC on my HTPC) outweigh the disadvantages of spending time on the rips. Plus, I won't be doing this for Blu-Rays - I simply don't have the space to keep raw Blu-Ray files from MakeMKV. That's another project for another day!


So thanks a lot both @Woodstock and @thetoad for your advice - it's helped me a lot to grasp the advantages. Just to be certain though, I've explored the forum quite a bit to identify if there are any other possible disadvantages I should consider. Do you think I should be concerned with any of the below before moving forward?
  • 1. Subtitles - default MKV flag handling issue. Can this issue be fixed post MakeMKV rip or is the only fix to re-rip from original raw files (VIDEO_TS/.IFO etc.)
    viewtopic.php?f=1&p=83938

    2. AACS 2.1 unknown volume key issue - mentioned by awdspyder in a post very similar to mine. Something I should investigate further or is it irrelevant to my topic? Sounds to me like it's an issue that occurs when you are actually trying to rip the original raw files - in which case I'd just keep that particular files original anyway.
    viewtopic.php?t=21181

    3. Potential video/sound synchronisation problems - can I assume post below is a very unique situation and entirely unlikely to happen to me?
    https://www.makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19842

    4. Interlaced DVDs - post below indicates a MakeMKV ripped file wouldn't play interlaced video properly but would play correctly through same media player when loading via original raw files. They fixed issue by removing subtitles but that's not a solution to me (I need the subs). Is this something that could cause issues for me, or likely to be a very unique scenario?
    https://www.makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=939
Sorry for long second post and big thanks again :)

VarHD
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:40 pm

Re: MakeMKV files vs original VIDEO_TS/.IFO for archival/future proofing purposes?

Post by VarHD » Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:42 pm

mkv_srg wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:49 pm
I’m trying to reduce the physical media I own and essentially want to have an uncompressed and digitised ‘master’ archival version of these DVDs that I can confidently use indefinitely into the future to convert to any format as technologies and formats evolve.
Based on this, you should definitely go with the full backup. Creating an MKV with the movie is good if your goal is to just transfer the media to a drive from which you're planning to watch it while keeping the discs, but if your goal is to have a complete archive that will replace the discs, then a full backup is the only option. Sure, you could also create MKVs on top of that so you can conveniently watch those movies, but for archival purposes, you want the full 1-to-1 copy.

Grauhaar
Posts: 523
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:46 pm

Re: MakeMKV files vs original VIDEO_TS/.IFO for archival/future proofing purposes?

Post by Grauhaar » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:25 pm

mkv_srg wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:24 pm
1. Subtitles - default MKV flag handling issue. Can this issue be fixed post MakeMKV rip or is the only fix to re-rip from original raw files (VIDEO_TS/.IFO etc.)
viewtopic.php?f=1&p=83938
Any flag or name can be changed with the "MKVToolNIX GUI" header editor
2. AACS 2.1 unknown volume key issue - mentioned by awdspyder in a post very similar to mine. Something I should investigate further or is it irrelevant to my topic? Sounds to me like it's an issue that occurs when you are actually trying to rip the original raw files - in which case I'd just keep that particular files original anyway.
viewtopic.php?t=21181
AACS 2.1 is only used for UHD 4K Blu-rays
3. Potential video/sound synchronisation problems - can I assume post below is a very unique situation and entirely unlikely to happen to me?
https://www.makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19842
Special case, never solved. I have never had any problem like this
4. Interlaced DVDs - post below indicates a MakeMKV ripped file wouldn't play interlaced video properly but would play correctly through same media player when loading via original raw files. They fixed issue by removing subtitles but that's not a solution to me (I need the subs). Is this something that could cause issues for me, or likely to be a very unique scenario?
https://www.makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=939
DVDs are interlaced, so MakeMKV is a copy tool, so the result is interlaced. You can re-encode it with Handbrake (deinterlace it) to progressive and save in most cases a lot of space, because the MPEG4 codec is much more better.
Good Luck :)
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Useful MakeMKV links: FAQs - Debug Log - Buy - Expiration of beta key
Two Blu-ray (UHD) Drives LG LG BH16NS55 with Libredrive Firmware 1.04

mkv_srg
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:01 pm

Re: MakeMKV files vs original VIDEO_TS/.IFO for archival/future proofing purposes?

Post by mkv_srg » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:59 pm

Thanks @VarHD for your response, and @Grauhaar for addressing each one of my questions - much appreciated.
Grauhaar wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:25 pm
Any flag or name can be changed with the "MKVToolNIX GUI" header editor
Just to clarify, this can be done with the MKV file after it's gone through MakeMKV?
VarHD wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:42 pm

Based on this, you should definitely go with the full backup. Creating an MKV with the movie is good if your goal is to just transfer the media to a drive from which you're planning to watch it while keeping the discs, but if your goal is to have a complete archive that will replace the discs, then a full backup is the only option. Sure, you could also create MKVs on top of that so you can conveniently watch those movies, but for archival purposes, you want the full 1-to-1 copy.
Agreed 100% if I was concerned with retaining menus, all extras, and the ability to burn back to a DVD disc with it's original structure - but so long as I retain 1:1 video, audio and subtitles for the main movie itself then that's okay for me (sorry if I didn't explain this well in my original post).

I guess the only thing that would stuff things up is if in 20 years or so the .MKV rip files are no longer supported in media players and converters etc. But I think that pretty unlikely (or maybe that's wishful thinking) so I'm inclined to go ahead with putting everything through MakeMKV. I've just done 5 films to test and so far so good...

Grauhaar
Posts: 523
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:46 pm

Re: MakeMKV files vs original VIDEO_TS/.IFO for archival/future proofing purposes?

Post by Grauhaar » Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:55 pm

mkv_srg wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:59 pm
Grauhaar wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:25 pm
Any flag or name can be changed with the "MKVToolNIX GUI" header editor
Just to clarify, this can be done with the MKV file after it's gone through MakeMKV?
Yes, sure! MKVToolNIX is "THE" tool to change, add, delete, modify contens of the mkv files. It's a must to have it!
Good Luck :)
_____________________________________________________________
Useful MakeMKV links: FAQs - Debug Log - Buy - Expiration of beta key
Two Blu-ray (UHD) Drives LG LG BH16NS55 with Libredrive Firmware 1.04

mkv_srg
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:01 pm

Re: MakeMKV files vs original VIDEO_TS/.IFO for archival/future proofing purposes?

Post by mkv_srg » Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:36 am

Grauhaar wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:25 pm
Yes, sure! MKVToolNIX is "THE" tool to change, add, delete, modify contens of the mkv files. It's a must to have it!
Fantastic, thanks so much! I've downloaded MKVToolNIX should I need it and now I'm off to commence ripping everything through MakeMKV and deleting the original VIDEO_TS/.IFO files.

Thanks again for everyone's help here! :D

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