LG BD390 playback of MKV files issue...

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TexasGrillChef
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:34 pm

LG BD390 playback of MKV files issue...

Post by TexasGrillChef » Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:10 pm

Hello... I am requesting info &/or help.

I am using MakeMKV version 1.4.12 windows x64 release.

The Blu-ray movies in question that I have tested with are the following:

Living Landscapes: Costa Rica
Living Landscapes: Rocky Mountains
Earth
Earth 2100
Hurt Locker
Post Grad
Halloween II (The new one)
Pandorum
Sunshine Cleaning

All of these movies are using either the MPG2 or h.264 video codec. (Living Landscapes uses the MPG2 codec)

When I use MakeMKV to create an MKV file of each of these movies. They all play just fine on my computer. Using either Windows Media Player, Corel WinDVD &/or PowerDVD. However when I save the MKV files to a USB drive to then play on my LG BD390 Networked Blu-ray player I get issues with SOME of the movies. Not all. but some. The issue I am getting is this. The sound plays just fine without any distortion. The picture on the other hand is all scrambled. Pixelation is happening in 4 lines across the screen. Very similar to the days of past when you were fast forwarding a VHS video tape while playing it on a non 4 head VHS player. The video behind those 4 pixelation lines flips between about 10 different scenes back n forth as it plays. Like I said it does this for some of the listed movies but not all of them

The Movies that play just fine in MKV are : Costa Rica, Earth, Earth 2100, & Post Grad. The rest (Rocky Mountains, Halloween, Pandorum, Sunshine Cleaning & Hurt locker) all having the problems. I tried recreating the MKV's thinking that something was set incorrectly but still no luck.

Im not claiming that their is a bug with MakeMkv. I would blame my BD390, yet it plays 4 of those MKV's from 4 of those movies that I created without issue. It also plays other MKV's without issue as well. So it can't all be with the BD390 either.

Here is one other note of something I tried. Using the latest MKVmerge GUI... (MKVtoolnix 3.2.0) and TSMuxer. I demuxed the video and audio track from "Pandorum" and remuxed into a MKV using MKVtoolnix 3.2.0 (MKVmerge GUI). Played it back on my computer. The audio/video snyc was horriblely off. I then tried to play it on my BD390. The video played just fine, the audio sounded just fine. Neither were distorted or pixelated. Albeit though even on the BD390 the Audio/video snyc were still off snyc. I am sure their is a way in or something I am doing wrong with the TSMuxer/MKVmerge process that is causing the audio/video sync issue and that I could easily correct. I just don't know what it is.

One other note... if I leave the M2TS file alone. Except for removing the unnessary tracks inside the M2TS file using TSMuxer. The BD390 will play ALL of the above movies without issue. The reason I would prefer to use an MKV file instead of leaving as an M2TS file is that using my BD390 I can use the slow motion, fast forward scan, rewind scan with an MKV where as the BD390 won't allow those features to be used with an M2TS file. Thus my main reason for wanting to convert from M2TS to MKV.

Anybody have any ideas what is going on? Why MakeMKV won't create playable (on my BD390) mkv's from some movies but not others? Maybe it's the movie itself? Yet the M2TS file will play without issue.

Thanks in advance for anyones ideas or thoughts on this matter.

TGC

P.S. I went back and used "mediainfo" to look at the created MKV files of both the ones that would play and the ones that won't play correctly. Here is something I noticed.

The ones that will play... as reported by mediaInfo... (Container Profile =Unknown@4.1) (High@L4.1) (CABAC / 3 Ref Frames)
OR... (Container Profile =Unknown@4.1) (High@L4.1) (CABAC / 4 Ref Frames)

The ones that WON"T play as reported by mediaInfo...(Container Profile =Unknown@4.1) (High@L4.1) (CABAC / 2 Ref Frames)

Do you think the Ref Frames might be the issue with the ones not playing correctly? Not enough ref frames?

setarip_old
Posts: 2136
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:31 pm

Re: LG BD390 playback of MKV files issue...

Post by setarip_old » Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:29 am

I'm, not personally familiar with your player, but was just doing a little reading about it.

When you use it for playing MKVs, what onscreen button do you select from the "Home menu"?

TexasGrillChef
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:34 pm

Re: LG BD390 playback of MKV files issue...

Post by TexasGrillChef » Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:07 am

Depends on if the MKV I am wanting to watch/play is on the USB drive or on the DLNA certified server.

The menu on my BD390 when it boots up is as follows...

Movie --- Photo/music --- My Media ---- Netflix

Roxio Cinema now--- You Tube----- Vudu---- Setup

If the MKV is on the DLNA server you choose "My Media". If the MKV is on the USB drive then you choose "Movie" If their is no Disc in the tray it goes automatically to the root folder of the HD otherwise it gives you a menu of " Disc ---- Hard Drive" Allowing you to either play the disc (BR or DVD) in the disc tray, or a movie off the hard drive.

The MKV's that play just fine on my BD390 will play just fine from the Hard drive &/or Network (DLNA server). The MKV's that won't play correctly won't play correctly from the USB drive as well as not play correctlly from the DLNA server. So I don't think the DLNA or USB hard drive is the issue.

When I used MediaInfo to see if I could find any differences between the MKV's that DO play correctly and those that DON'T, the only thing I found that was different is that the ones that DO play correctly have 3 or 4 reference frames, and those that don't ALL had only 2 reference frames.

All the movies started out with h.264 encoding from the Blue-ray. Only two exceptions were the living landscapes Costa Rica & Living Landscapes Rocky Mountains which both were MPG2. Yet Costa Rica MKV plays just fine & the Rocky Mountains does not. Both of those blue rays being released by the same company as well. Go figure.

I tried Handbrake on "Hurt Locker" it took almost 18 hours to process and create a MKV file. The MKV file that "handbrake" created did play just fine. Although it took 18 hours to process. When MakeMKV ran on "Hurt Locker" it only took 45 min to process and create the MKV. When I compared the two MKV files of "Hurt Locker" between Handbrake and MakeMKV the only difference I noticed was the reference frames. The one that would play at 4 reference frames (From Handbrake). The one that wouldn't play correctly (MakeMKV) had only 2 reference frames. I would prefer to use MakeMKV as it's faster (Alot faster) than Handbrake. Even if MakeMKV doubled the time it takes to process it would still be faster than handbrake.

Any ideas?

TGC

setarip_old
Posts: 2136
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:31 pm

Re: LG BD390 playback of MKV files issue...

Post by setarip_old » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:04 am

The MKV's that play just fine on my BD390 will play just fine from the Hard drive &/or Network (DLNA server). The MKV's that won't play correctly won't play correctly from the USB drive as well as not play correctlly from the DLNA server.
So what happens if you transfer an MKV from your USB hard drive to "the Hard drive" and play it?

TexasGrillChef
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:34 pm

Re: LG BD390 playback of MKV files issue...

Post by TexasGrillChef » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:23 am

Their is no internal Hard Drive. The USB Hard Drive and the Hard drive are one in the same. When I refer to Hard drive, I am refering to useing the USB hard drive functionality.

I get the same results if I play back the files via the USB Hard Drive, or via the Network DLNA server system.

TGC

setarip_old
Posts: 2136
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:31 pm

Re: LG BD390 playback of MKV files issue...

Post by setarip_old » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:04 am

You may have hit the nail on the head. Check out this link and the quote from within it:

http://www.networkedmediatank.com/print ... ?tid=23563

Personally I would not buy any player until I could verify from someone that has used it whether it will play the spec of the files that I require. So if you need 1080p H264 playback with a profile of HP@L5.1 and less than 4 reference frames in an MKV container then try to find out specifically if it can play that spec rather than just the container.

TexasGrillChef
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:34 pm

Re: LG BD390 playback of MKV files issue...

Post by TexasGrillChef » Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:49 am

Yep, Thats what I found out. It can play H.264 with reference frames of less than 3, in M2TS files. It CAN NOT play H.264 video with reference frames of less than 3 in MKV container files.

So is their a way to chance the number of reference frames when muxing, or transcoding into an MKV file? Otherwise I will just have to stick to watching those that don't work in their M2TS format. Which means I lose slow mo and fast forward/reverse scan. The only real advantage to going to MKV playback.

I have found a few other moives that work and don't work either with MakeMKV. When I looked at the files the problem was with the reference frames either being less than 3, or 3 & greater. If the reference frames were 3 or 4, it worked, if it was 2 then it didn't work.

Caligula, & "I can do bad all by myself" were 2 movies that worked. "Angels & Demons" did not work. :(

TGC

setarip_old
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Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:31 pm

Re: LG BD390 playback of MKV files issue...

Post by setarip_old » Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:27 am

Although "multiAVCHD" has the ability to set the number of reference frames, I personally don't know in what way such a change will/may impact the playback of such an altered file.

Try it...

Also, if you haven't already done so, it certainly wouldn't hurt to contact LG and inquire about possible pending firmware updates that might address this specific shortcoming.

datman
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:31 am

Re: LG BD390 playback of MKV files issue...

Post by datman » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:36 pm

Hey Texas,

I just ordered a BD390. I kinda jumped the gun before I did all my research, I was afraid it would sell out. How has it worked for you? Can you plug a 1Tb hd into it and play 25g MKV movies? Sorry to hijack your thread :D

TexasGrillChef
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:34 pm

Re: LG BD390 playback of MKV files issue...

Post by TexasGrillChef » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:50 pm

To answer your question. Yes & No.

You can plug ANY size USB drive in you want. I have a 2TB drive that I am using. It will work so long as you have it formated NTFS..

As far as playing MKV files of any size.

The BD390 player will play the M2TS files that you can copy/rip directly off a Blu-ray. So no need to really convert it to MKV.

it (BD390) will NOT, I repeat that.... will NOT play ANY file (M2TS, MKV) or any other container format where the video was ENCODED in VC-1. (When that VC-1 file is being played from the USB hard drive or Network DLNA server)

IF the video was encoded with MPG2, or H.264, DiVx, and a few others. It will play those just fine. Either in a M2TS container, MPG container or MKV container.

AS noted in this thread though. For whatever reason there are SOME issues with H.264 encoded video in MKV files. Example. "Angels & Demons" when left in it's original M2TS file plays jsut fine on the BD390. When I convert it to MKV it will play but with the video track being displayed weird & unwatchable. This is because the reference frames is 2.

On H.264 encoded movies where the Reference frams are 3 or 4, and the M2TS file is converted to MKV it will play just fine.

As far as playing an M2TS file or an MKV file on the BD390. It will play both. You can't tell any difference in PQ or SQ if the movie is in MKV for M2TS format. The ONLY thing you gain by converting it to MKV is you get slow mo, fast forward/reverse scan.

The BD390 is one of the best Blu-ray players on the market. Even if you don't fully use it's DLNA certified media player capabilities. It can play Netflix, Vudu, and Roxio Cine as well.

TGC

datman
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:31 am

Re: LG BD390 playback of MKV files issue...

Post by datman » Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:39 am

Thanks TGC. I'm not sure if any of my discs are VC-1they are all blu-ray M2TS I would think. My goal is to use my BDrebuilder backups converted to MKV or M2TS which ever works. I think I'm ok and will figure it all out later.

TexasGrillChef
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:34 pm

Re: LG BD390 playback of MKV files issue...

Post by TexasGrillChef » Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:08 am

There are at least 2 probably more that will tell you what the video codec that was used on the video track of the M2TS file.

TSMuxer, and MediaInfo.

There are exceptions to this rule, but a good rule of thumb is that any movie released from Universal, & Paramount are going to be VC-1 Encoded. Movies from Sony & Disney are going to be MPG2 (For older blu-ray releases) and H.264 for all their new releases.

I have found Waner Brothers to use both H.264 and VC-1 on their movies. Smaller independant studios are still using MPG2 on some of their Blu-rays. (Living landscape series, Christmas Fire Log scene etc..)

Foreign Movies can vary between all 3 Video formats allowed to be used on a Blu-ray. (MPG2, h.264 and VC-1). Depends on the country and who the american company is that is handling the release of those discs in the USA.

TGC

datman
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Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:31 am

Re: LG BD390 playback of MKV files issue...

Post by datman » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:45 pm

TGC I wonder if me working off BDrebuilder encoded movies changes any of the VC-1 issues. I also think BDRB encodes are the glitch with makeMKV and anothereac3to that I'm having but I have been having luck with demuxing with tsmuxer and mkvmerge. Files that would run in either have worked.

I still prefer the BDRB file hands down to reripping the original. Everything is simplified always only one movie only file. No menu, no BD+, no trailers, smaller size files that if need be I can burn to a BD25 disc. just click it and it plays no crap to wade through.

TexasGrillChef
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:34 pm

Re: LG BD390 playback of MKV files issue...

Post by TexasGrillChef » Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:56 pm

datman wrote:TGC I wonder if me working off BDrebuilder encoded movies changes any of the VC-1 issues. I also think BDRB encodes are the glitch with makeMKV and anothereac3to that I'm having but I have been having luck with demuxing with tsmuxer and mkvmerge. Files that would run in either have worked.

I still prefer the BDRB file hands down to reripping the original. Everything is simplified always only one movie only file. No menu, no BD+, no trailers, smaller size files that if need be I can burn to a BD25 disc. just click it and it plays no crap to wade through.
Oh I almost forgot. BDRB has issues with INTERLACED VC-1. I ran into this when I was trying to reencode M2TS files rippled from "DOCTOR WHO" and "TORCHWOOD". Those discs are using INTERLACED VC-1. ie... 1080i. They weren't encoded at 1080p. Some other programs have issues as well with Interrlaced VC-1 as well (1080i). Not for sure I remember what the root cause of that was.

multiAVCHD and RipBot seem to convert the VC-1 video track into h.264. I have had some decent luck with it reencoding to h.264 without to much quality loss. I think alot depends on the HDTV you have & it's size. I have a 65" plasma and some things are more noticable on it then my 32" LCD. I had to try several different settings to determine the best setup for me & what I could live with.

BR's that are encoded straight to h.264 or MPG2 I leave as is, & have been using MakeMKV with alot of success. It just remoxes though into an MKV with no quality loss at all. I like that. But like this thread points out. Those movies that are h.264 and only have 2 reference frames and not 3 or 4 reference frames won't seem to play when muxed into a MKV by MakeMKV or any other MKV muxing program. Seems I have to reencode the h.264 at which point I am getting noticeable quality loss in the picture.

So I think on those I will leave as M2TS files. Since the BD390 will play M2TS files. Just without the "special effects" of slo mo, Fast/reverse scan.

TGC

datman
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:31 am

Re: LG BD390 playback of MKV files issue...

Post by datman » Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:57 pm

TGC thanks for all the information you have been very helpful :D

I had one more question to ask you, I have assumed that the 7.1 analog output will be unmolested unlike the story with computer based players

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