HDR colors muted on HDR enabled TV

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jmonier
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:38 pm

Re: HDR colors muted on HDR enabled TV

Post by jmonier » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:36 pm

WhiteFeather wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:08 pm
jmonier wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:56 pm
Note that HDMI 2.0 does not have enough bandwidth to handle RGB (or YCbCr 4:4:4) at 10 bits (which is apparently necessary for HDR) and the result is exactly as you have seen.
Really? I thought HDMI 2.1 was for 8 and 10k. How does one normally connect a 4K HDR device if not by HDMI? My TV only has HDMI and USB inputs.

HDMI 2.1 will probably fix the problem, but, so far, no video card (including the Nvidia RTX) supports it. So, right now the only solution is to use YCbCr422 over HDMI. Or to do HDR to SDR conversion. madVR does this very well and is being improved daily. For many people, it is as good or better than using the HDR processing in the TV.
Note also that this is not just with an HTPC, e.g. if you set an Oppo 203 to RGB (the default is YCbCr) you get the same desaturated colors.
I don't even know what an Oppo is! =]

As said elsewhere, it is a standalone player. That comment was to indicate that the problem of desaturated colors is a general one, not linked to any specific hardware or software.
So, try setting your video card to YCbCr 4:2:2. I think that you will find that the problem is fixed. It certainly was for me.
What problem did this solve for you, the desaturated colors or the screen flashing? I've set mine to YCbCr 4:2:2 and don't get flashes to black but I do tears and bars that occasionally appear. This happens at 8, 10, or 12 bpc and at 50 or 60 Hz. Everything seems to run fine at 30 Hz though. The colors also don't seem any more saturated. Also, I can only set YCbCr444 to 8 bpc, no other options appear.

I was addressing only the desaturated colors, I have no problems with flashing (probably a VLC problem). Of course YCbCr444 can only be set to 8 bits, that's why I said to use YCbCr422.
st4evr wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:28 pm
Additionally, as it has been dicussed and advised countless of times by now in this forum. Do NOT use VLC. It has poorly designed 4k playback.
What exactly does this mean? Is VLC responsible for the colors being desaturated? Otherwise the movies play fine.

As I said, the desaturated color problem is not linked to any specific hardware or software.
Learn to use something like MPC-BE/MPC-HC + MadVR for more proper 4k + HDR support on PCs. JRiver is another great all in one 4k player software package. That can play MKVs and full disc structures.
I will check these out. If they can solve the color issue, I can just set my TV to 30Hz when watching 4K HDR content and it should be fine.

For me the desaturated color problem occurs at 24Hz as well as 60 (on an LG OLED). That MIGHT be a function of the specific TV.
How? Google is your friend. Hundreds of detailed discussions and step-by-step guides on the web regarding this topic already without needing to get into a pages long discussion on it here. JRiver and MadVR have their own very active support forums as well.
With as much info out there, it's hard to find something that actually applies to this exact situation.

SamuriHL
Posts: 937
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: HDR colors muted on HDR enabled TV

Post by SamuriHL » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:17 pm

With JRiver, you may have to go into options, video, and select red october profile HQ. Then it'll download lav and madvr for you and autoconfigure them.

aaronwt
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:10 pm

Re: HDR colors muted on HDR enabled TV

Post by aaronwt » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:10 am

jmonier wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:56 pm
Note that HDMI 2.0 does not have enough bandwidth to handle RGB (or YCbCr 4:4:4) at 10 bits (which is apparently necessary for HDR) and the result is exactly as you have seen. Note also that this is not just with an HTPC, e.g. if you set an Oppo 203 to RGB (the default is YCbCr) you get the same desaturated colors.

So, try setting your video card to YCbCr 4:2:2. I think that you will find that the problem is fixed. It certainly was for me.

Well that is interesting. Since I've never had any problem running 444 or RGB at 12 bits. With the several UHD BD players I've owned since February 2016. I've never had any de-saturated colors at 12 bits for 444 or RGB or even 422 from the Oppo, SOny, Samsung, and Philips UHD BD players I've owned.
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SamuriHL
Posts: 937
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: HDR colors muted on HDR enabled TV

Post by SamuriHL » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:31 am

aaronwt wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:10 am
jmonier wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:56 pm
Note that HDMI 2.0 does not have enough bandwidth to handle RGB (or YCbCr 4:4:4) at 10 bits (which is apparently necessary for HDR) and the result is exactly as you have seen. Note also that this is not just with an HTPC, e.g. if you set an Oppo 203 to RGB (the default is YCbCr) you get the same desaturated colors.

So, try setting your video card to YCbCr 4:2:2. I think that you will find that the problem is fixed. It certainly was for me.

Well that is interesting. Since I've never had any problem running 444 or RGB at 12 bits. With the several UHD BD players I've owned since February 2016. I've never had any de-saturated colors at 12 bits for 444 or RGB or even 422 from the Oppo, SOny, Samsung, and Philips UHD BD players I've owned.
Not at 60fps you can't.

aaronwt
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:10 pm

Re: HDR colors muted on HDR enabled TV

Post by aaronwt » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:40 am

SamuriHL wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:31 am
aaronwt wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:10 am
jmonier wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:56 pm
Note that HDMI 2.0 does not have enough bandwidth to handle RGB (or YCbCr 4:4:4) at 10 bits (which is apparently necessary for HDR) and the result is exactly as you have seen. Note also that this is not just with an HTPC, e.g. if you set an Oppo 203 to RGB (the default is YCbCr) you get the same desaturated colors.

So, try setting your video card to YCbCr 4:2:2. I think that you will find that the problem is fixed. It certainly was for me.

Well that is interesting. Since I've never had any problem running 444 or RGB at 12 bits. With the several UHD BD players I've owned since February 2016. I've never had any de-saturated colors at 12 bits for 444 or RGB or even 422 from the Oppo, SOny, Samsung, and Philips UHD BD players I've owned.
Not at 60fps you can't.
No not at 60fps you can't but if you are watching a UHD title, they will be at 24 or 30fps. Except for the one 60fps title. Which can be output under the HDMI spec at 12 bit for 444, rgb, and 422. If you go to 60fps at 12 bit or 10 bit then you have no choice since the HDMi spec only allows for 422 or 420 at that bit depth for 60fps.

And then the TV can also make a difference. FOr instance the TCL Tvs can't handle 444 properly unless in PC mode(which you can't manually switch to). So you end up with muted colors when playing HDR content. So you need to use the 422 or RGB color space for HDR content to look like it should. While the Sony TVs have no problem with any color space.
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SamuriHL
Posts: 937
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: HDR colors muted on HDR enabled TV

Post by SamuriHL » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:10 am

No I get that but the jmonier post you were quoting, that's what he meant is that HDMI 2.0 can't handle the bandwidth for 60fps 444 10/12 bit. I run 444 RGB 12 bit from my 1060 to my LG C8 and it works great. Obviously not for 60fps content, and yes I do own one. For that it'll switch to 8 bit which is perfectly fine if using madvr.

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