Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

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Mr_Orange
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:11 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by Mr_Orange » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:45 am

yusesope wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:25 am
OT: do native English speakers understand me when I say film instead of movie?
Perfectly, since the word is 'film' not 'movie' for a native English speaker :D.

yusesope
Posts: 221
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:34 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by yusesope » Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:32 pm

Mr_Orange wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:45 am
yusesope wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:25 am
OT: do native English speakers understand me when I say film instead of movie?
Perfectly, since the word is 'film' not 'movie' for a native English speaker :D.
I don't know why I was convinced otherwise :shock: !
Thanks for enlightening me!
And above all, thanks for having glossed over the rest of what I write :lol: !
I bet my posts make people's eyes bleed (especially native English speakers)!
I apologize again... :mrgreen:

Mr_Orange
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:11 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by Mr_Orange » Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:39 pm

I follow the information in this (and other threads) but I have neither the time nor the skill to undertake what is required so I'm happy to wait for native support to arrive in Plex for my Shield TV Pro.

RESET_9999
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:12 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by RESET_9999 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:53 pm

@ragico
if it's not too much trouble for you, could you please upload two small samples so I can do some comparison. I need one untouched dual-layer FEL sample and one dual-layer converted MEL sample that plays on the x700.
I'm not sure of which tool I need to extract layers of a single layer file(bl+el+rpu).

thank you
Please forgive my weak English.
Sony x700 ----> Denon AVR ----> LG OLED C8

ragico
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:09 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by ragico » Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:52 pm

RESET_9999 wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:53 pm
@ragico
if it's not too much trouble for you, could you please upload two small samples so I can do some comparison. I need one untouched dual-layer FEL sample and one dual-layer converted MEL sample that plays on the x700.
I'm not sure of which tool I need to extract layers of a single layer file(bl+el+rpu).

thank you
I prepared the 2 files as per your request. One is untouched FEL and the other is MEL converted using Yusesope latest tool and instructions. Both files are in m2ts made with tsmuxer "w64-nightly-2020-09-20--02-24-10" and originate from the UHD disc "US". Both files play perfectly in sony x700.

FEL_UNTOUCHED: https://we.tl/t-2f3fOWTXy7
MEL_CONVERTED: https://we.tl/t-r8ni9UeHau

RESET_9999
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:12 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by RESET_9999 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:54 pm

ragico wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:52 pm

I prepared the 2 files as per your request. One is untouched FEL and the other is MEL converted using Yusesope latest tool and instructions. Both files are in m2ts made with tsmuxer "w64-nightly-2020-09-20--02-24-10" and originate from the UHD disc "US". Both files play perfectly in sony x700.

FEL_UNTOUCHED: https://we.tl/t-2f3fOWTXy7
MEL_CONVERTED: https://we.tl/t-r8ni9UeHau
Many thank's . I'll do some comparisons tonight.


EDIT:

how come the MEL file is now larger than the FEL file ?

Image
Please forgive my weak English.
Sony x700 ----> Denon AVR ----> LG OLED C8

yusesope
Posts: 221
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:34 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by yusesope » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:59 pm

Mr_Orange wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:39 pm
I follow the information in this (and other threads) but I have neither the time nor the skill to undertake what is required so I'm happy to wait for native support to arrive in Plex for my Shield TV Pro.
It is a wise choice! The important thing is to stay informed!

RESET_9999 wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:54 pm
Many thank's . I'll do some comparisons tonight.
Thanks for what you do! And thanks also to @ragico...
RESET_9999 wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:54 pm
how come the MEL file is now larger than the FEL file ?
This is not the only reason but it can help you understand.
Let's pretend we have two RPUs, a FEL and a MEL.

FEL -> B7 AB 01 44 FC 00 00 78 FF FF
MEL -> F0 00 00 00 00 02 01 22 69

Each alphanumeric pair represents one byte.
Which one takes up the most space?
The first! quite right? It's bigger than a byte!
No. the second!

In fact, there are "illegal" sequences of bytes that cannot be presented to a Decoder (000000, 000001, 000002) and these must be modified by adding a byte equal to 3 (03). Therefore:

FEL -> B7 AB 01 44 FC 00 00 78 FF FF
MEL -> F0 00 00 03 00 00 03 02 01 22 69

Who takes up the most space now?

If you think about it, a MEL RPU should be less informative and therefore it is more likely that there are more sequences composed of 00 and therefore a larger addition of 03 bytes is required.

Now repeat the whole process for hundreds of thousands of times remembering that every zero 03 increases the file size by one byte.

RESET_9999
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:12 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by RESET_9999 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:29 pm

so here are some comparisons. Pitch black room without any light, OLED TV, Camera settings locked, Tripod, and Bluetooth triggering.

Dual-layer FEL untouched VS Dual-layer MEL converted
https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/6565

the untouched FEL is brighter & has more punch, no doubt. But I think this is normal because I'm seeing the same kind(if not more) of difference when I compare the Spears and Munsil FEL & MEL

Spears and Munsil dual-layer FEL untouched VS Spears and Munsil dual-layer MEL untouched
https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/6564

Dual-layer MEL untouched VS Single-layer MEL (el+RPU) untouched
https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/6566

also from the bluray discs I inspected, FEL DV hevc stream is the actual movie with a white/grey tint on it while MEL DV is just a static white/grey image.
We still can see the video in the MEL conversion so that could be the reason why it doesn't play on the x700. I can add some random MEL track to any HDR10 hevc stream and it will still play in DV (single or dual layer). with some flickering but it triggers DV.


real FEL / real MEL / MEL conversion


ImageImage Image
Please forgive my weak English.
Sony x700 ----> Denon AVR ----> LG OLED C8

shawnc22
Posts: 494
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:40 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by shawnc22 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:35 am

RESET_9999 wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:29 pm
the untouched FEL is brighter & has more punch, no doubt. But I think this is normal because I'm seeing the same kind(if not more) of difference when I compare the Spears and Munsil FEL & MEL
I also believe that this is probably the expected behavior. When FEL is processed correctly, it's produces a 12bit picture whereas MEL is only capable of 10bit. Even though we don't have 12bit displays, a 12bit stream downsampled to 10bit will still look different than a native 10bit(MEL) stream. A picture and picture comparison of the original FEL vs converted MEL may not then a be a good way of determining whether the method is working. One thing you can potentially try is since the S&M disc contains a demo that's provided in both FEL and MEl, convert the FEL to MEL and then compare it to the provided untouched MEL.

ghostshadow
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:25 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by ghostshadow » Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:54 am

@yusesope
Hello, first of all thank you for your script and your involvement.
So I followed your procedure with the software and script made available.
I tackled MIDWAY Bluray -UHD fr.
For information I have a Panasonic HZ1500 Tv (I test the Dv player on the internal player).
I get an mp4 (without audio track because it is dts-hd), in 8 Dv profile which is read without problem by the TV.
Your procedure works perfectly.
Général
Nom complet : MidwayDV.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Profil du format : Base Media / Version 2
Identifiant du codec : mp42 (mp42/dby1/isom)
Taille du fichier : 64,6 Gio
Durée : 2 h 18 min
Débit global moyen : 66,9 Mb/s
Date d'encodage : UTC 2020-09-23 10:24:21
Date de marquage : UTC 2020-09-23 10:24:21

Vidéo
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Profil du format : Main 10@L5.1@High
HDR format : Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.08.06, BL+EL+RPU / SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
Identifiant du codec : hev1
Identifiant du codec/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Durée : 2 h 18 min
Débit : 66,9 Mb/s
Largeur : 3 840 pixels
Hauteur : 2 160 pixels
Format à l'écran : 16/9
Type d'images/s : Constant
Images par seconde : 23,976 (24000/1001) Im/s
Espace de couleurs : YUV
Sous-échantillonnage de la chrominance : 4:2:0 (Type 2)
Profondeur des couleurs : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Image) : 0.336
Taille du flux : 64,6 Gio (100%)
Default : Non
Date d'encodage : UTC 2020-09-23 10:24:21
Date de marquage : UTC 2020-09-23 10:24:21
Gamme de couleurs : Limited
Coordonnées de chromaticité : BT.2020
Caractéristiques du transfert : PQ
Coefficients de la matrice : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries : Display P3
Mastering display luminance : min: 0.0001 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level : 570 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level : 1504 cd/m2
Codec configuration box : hvcC+dvcC+hvcE
On the other hand when I use TsMuxeR (version given in your procedure w64-nightly-2020-09-20--02-24-10) to integrate the audio tracks and pgs, TsMuxeR changes me the Dv 8 profile into Dv 7 profile, which him does not pass on my Tv, and therefore the video is read in HDR PQ.

hepe9
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:04 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by hepe9 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:41 am

Amazing comparison @RESET_9999 thanks

yusesope
Posts: 221
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:34 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by yusesope » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:07 am

RESET_9999 wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:29 pm
the untouched FEL is brighter & has more punch, no doubt. But I think this is normal because I'm seeing the same kind(if not more) of difference when I compare the Spears and Munsil FEL & MEL
Great work as always.
RESET_9999 wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:29 pm
also from the bluray discs I inspected, FEL DV hevc stream is the actual movie with a white/grey tint on it while MEL DV is just a static white/grey image. We still can see the video in the MEL conversion so that could be the reason why it doesn't play on the x700.
There are multiple reasons why the FEL structure is intact in my MEL files.
This is not the important thing.
What matters, in my opinion, are the NALu RPU. Imagine the latter as an orchestra conductor. With the right changes I can explain to the Decoder that it does not have to start a second decoding session (as happens in FEL files) but to use "a static image" as substrate (as happens with MEL files) regardless of the presence of FEL data.
This is the goal.

Guys, please note that I don't work for Dolby and I don't have access to any documentation.
All this is the result of a logical analysis shared between me, myself and I.
There is no guarantee that the process will be correct but if it were completely wrong the film would not start on devices like the FireStick 4K (able to read only MEL) and a BD player would not play it (with the help of the right container) without color defects (
and reproducing the same behavior that exists between an original FEL and MEL file)!
Also, I think FireStick owners are okay with anything compared to a full BLACK screen :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: !

RESET_9999 wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:29 pm
...I can add some random MEL track to any HDR10 hevc stream and it will still play in DV (single or dual layer). with some flickering but it triggers DV...
True!
The tricky part is to generate glitch-free files on devices that cannot read the original (FEL) files.
Result that cannot be achieved with random data :wink: !

shawnc22 wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:35 am
I also believe that this is probably the expected behavior. When FEL is processed correctly, it's produces a 12bit picture whereas MEL is only capable of 10bit. Even though we don't have 12bit displays, a 12bit stream downsampled to 10bit will still look different than a native 10bit(MEL) stream. A picture and picture comparison of the original FEL vs converted MEL may not then a be a good way of determining whether the method is working. One thing you can potentially try is since the S&M disc contains a demo that's provided in both FEL and MEl, convert the FEL to MEL and then compare it to the provided untouched MEL.
I agree with every single word especially the blue part.
I don't want to take advantage of your kindness @RESET_9999!
Also keep in mind that my RPUs carry more information than those normally found in MEL streams.
Maybe the result could be in favor of the converted MEL file over the original MEL.
Or it could be a complete disaster... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

EDIT
Pure personal judgment.
I like the MEL frame more than the FEL frame :shock: .
Image

ghostshadow
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:25 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by ghostshadow » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:32 am

hello yusesope
j'ai utilisé ta méthode pour creer un mp4 DV profil 8
Il passe très bien avec le lecteur interne de ma Tv panasonic. Par contre j'ai pas pu intégrer les pistes audio qui sont en dts-hd
J'ai essayé de faire un .ts mais le profil DV change en profil 7 et la il est pas lut en Dolby vision

RESET_9999
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:12 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by RESET_9999 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:49 pm

yusesope wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:07 am

EDIT
Pure personal judgment.
I like the MEL frame more than the FEL frame :shock: .
keep in mind that those pictures are amplifying the difference... the clipping here is introduced by the camera, there is no clipping in real life.
I'm sure you would say that you prefer the FEL one if you saw it in real life. Not a big difference but i can tell fel is more vibrant.
yusesope wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:07 am

I agree with every single word especially the blue part.
I don't want to take advantage of your kindness @RESET_9999!
Also keep in mind that my RPUs carry more information than those normally found in MEL streams.
Maybe the result could be in favor of the converted MEL file over the original MEL.
Or it could be a complete disaster... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I'm not very familiar with your tools because my player can play dual layer DV so i dont really know how to convert/extract it.
If someone can upload a small MEL conversion sample of that spears and munsil disc, I can compare it to the original MEL file.
Please forgive my weak English.
Sony x700 ----> Denon AVR ----> LG OLED C8

yusesope
Posts: 221
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:34 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by yusesope » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:53 pm

RESET_9999 wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:49 pm
keep in mind that those pictures are amplifying the difference... the clipping here is introduced by the camera, there is no clipping in real life.
I'm sure you would say that you prefer the FEL one if you saw it in real life. Not a big difference but i can tell fel is more vibrant.
I had imagined it. I trust your judgment.
RESET_9999 wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:49 pm
I'm not very familiar with your tools...
This hurts my little heart :|

RESET_9999 wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:49 pm
If someone can upload a small MEL conversion sample of that spears and munsil disc, I can compare it to the original MEL file.
I have encountered several difficulties in making the cut.
Hope it works :? .
HERE it is.

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