Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

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magnetoeric
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:21 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by magnetoeric »

Could someone please do a comparison video of FEL from any blu ray player with FEL to MEL converted file played through the internal player of CX (or through native plex app)? Or if it's already done, would be grateful if they link it. Thanks in advance :)
HEMAN
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:50 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by HEMAN »

I am using the OP method to convert ISO to MP4 that trigger DV. However, its taking too long average is 1 hour complete. Any faster method ? Thank You
agneva
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:42 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by agneva »

magnetoeric wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:03 pm
Could someone please do a comparison video of FEL from any blu ray player with FEL to MEL converted file played through the internal player of CX (or through native plex app)? Or if it's already done, would be grateful if they link it. Thanks in advance :)
my camera cannot capture the full dynamics of the OLED display, so I fixed it to get a comparable result by photo:
Ryan.jpg
Ryan.jpg (1.38 MiB) Viewed 17087 times
the brightness-pumping can not be seen on a picture :lol:
Wanderlust3K
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:06 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by Wanderlust3K »

DaMacFunkin wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:52 am
The CX can do TV led Dolby Vision so it has 2 decoders, so no discussion.
What is more likely is the second decoder is crippled in firmware for media file playback.
Have you tried built in Plex app from NAS?
Yep, LG internal player/Plex.

Firmware crippled makes sense, sucks, but makes sense.

Above pictures taken by @Agneva ilustrates the issue pretty well.
AndreasT
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:10 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by AndreasT »

agneva wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:38 pm
magnetoeric wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:03 pm
Could someone please do a comparison video of FEL from any blu ray player with FEL to MEL converted file played through the internal player of CX (or through native plex app)? Or if it's already done, would be grateful if they link it. Thanks in advance :)
my camera cannot capture the full dynamics of the OLED display, so I fixed it to get a comparable result by photo:
Ryan.jpg

the brightness-pumping can not be seen on a picture :lol:
But you didn't convert the FEL to MEL as asked right? The pics on the right is from a Dual Track Dual Layer file with FEL?

In addition to the original question comparing UHD playback with a FEL to MEL conversion, it would be interesting to compare a FEL to MEL conversion to when only the BL is played without HDR at all.

I mean, if only the BL is played, with no HDR at all, is the picture really as dark as when playing a DV dual track dual layer with FEL?
DaMacFunkin
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:17 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by DaMacFunkin »

Wanderlust3K wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:58 pm
DaMacFunkin wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:52 am
The CX can do TV led Dolby Vision so it has 2 decoders, so no discussion.
What is more likely is the second decoder is crippled in firmware for media file playback.
Have you tried built in Plex app from NAS?
Yep, LG internal player/Plex.

Firmware crippled makes sense, sucks, but makes sense.

Above pictures taken by @Agneva ilustrates the issue pretty well.
Glad I gave a C9 then, CX in many ways sounds like a backward step.
agneva
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:42 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by agneva »

AndreasT wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:58 am

But you didn't convert the FEL to MEL as asked right? The pics on the right is from a Dual Track Dual Layer file with FEL?

In addition to the original question comparing UHD playback with a FEL to MEL conversion, it would be interesting to compare a FEL to MEL conversion to when only the BL is played without HDR at all.

I mean, if only the BL is played, with no HDR at all, is the picture really as dark as when playing a DV dual track dual layer with FEL?
both pics are from the original Dual Track, Dual Layer with FEL !
left side on the Bluray Player, right side from the CX interal Player.

I don´t know what you mean with "BL is played without HDR" - sorry.

If you play BL HDR10 the picture is correct.

If you play Dolby Vision Single Layer (only RPU) the picture is as the right side, both on the Bluray player and on the TV.

You can´t convert FEL to MEL.
AndreasT
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:10 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by AndreasT »

agneva wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:58 am
AndreasT wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:58 am

But you didn't convert the FEL to MEL as asked right? The pics on the right is from a Dual Track Dual Layer file with FEL?

In addition to the original question comparing UHD playback with a FEL to MEL conversion, it would be interesting to compare a FEL to MEL conversion to when only the BL is played without HDR at all.

I mean, if only the BL is played, with no HDR at all, is the picture really as dark as when playing a DV dual track dual layer with FEL?
both pics are from the original Dual Track, Dual Layer with FEL !
left side on the Bluray Player, right side from the CX interal Player.

I don´t know what you mean with "BL is played without HDR" - sorry.

If you play BL HDR10 the picture is correct.

If you play Dolby Vision Single Layer (only RPU) the picture is as the right side, both on the Bluray player and on the TV.

You can´t convert FEL to MEL.
"Convert" is maybe the wrong word. I just used it since its used to describe what yusesope's tool (https://www.makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic ... 970#p96282) is used for.

So what does that tool really do then?

When I use it the resulting mp4 plays on my LG CX what appears to be fine, e.g. as your left picture, with DV and what seems to be ok colors. I tried both starting with a UHD backup and use this tool to "mux and convert to MEL" creating a "converted" single track that i then put into a mp4 file. I also tried to use a mkv from makemkv as the source, and use that tool to "demux and convert to MEL", and then mux the two resulting files as separate video tracks in an mp4 file (using mp4muxer v1.0.0). In both cases the files plays with DV and what appears ok colors.
Wanderlust3K
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:06 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by Wanderlust3K »

agneva wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:58 am

If you play BL HDR10 the picture is correct.

If you play Dolby Vision Single Layer (only RPU) the picture is as the right side, both on the Bluray player and on the TV.

You can´t convert FEL to MEL.
I tested the files on my CX.

HDR10 looks fine.

Both DL & SL look WRONG, supper dark --> EL is not decoded on the DL, not present on the SL.
Last edited by Wanderlust3K on Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Wanderlust3K
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:06 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by Wanderlust3K »

AndreasT wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:12 pm


So what does that tool really do then?

Keep the RPU data = Dynamic HDR ??

EL is lost, it doesnt matter on MEL tittles since theres only RPU there but MATTERS on FEL tittles, keeping RPU alone is not enough for FEL tittles.
Last edited by Wanderlust3K on Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
lexyz
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 5:32 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by lexyz »

Wanderlust3K wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:26 pm
EL is lost, it doesnt matter on MEL tittles since theres only RPU there but MATTERS on FEL tittles, keeping RPU alone is not enough for FEL tittles.
...
Now, whats the point of MEL Dolby Vision stuff if the same quality can be achieved with HDR10+ or even with plain HDR10 with Dynamic tonemmaping ON?
Try UHD to p8 conversion.

FEL is mostly used for 12bit color restoration. Thats all
Image transformations are based on RPU data.

Yes, some scenes can noticably lost in picture quality if EL dropped. This is a cause for concern about StudioCanal disks
Bravia XF90, Shield TV Pro'19, UBP-X700
RESET_9999
Posts: 1853
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:12 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by RESET_9999 »

Here's a way of finding out if your playback device is processing the FEL or not.

mp4 FEL DT-DL sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PszHwO ... sp=sharing
TS FEL ST-DL sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1caOej3 ... sp=sharing
mkv FEL ST-DL sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KV7lqA ... sp=sharing
mp4 FEL ST-DL sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AYrRZo ... sp=sharing
TS P8 SL RPU sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fNW6gE ... sp=sharing



These files are a mix of a BL and a random FEL track. This makes the FEL data visible on top of the BL when played in DV so it easily tells us if the player just ignores the EL or if it actually uses it. The P8 SL sample also has the same random RPU metadata.

Results:

x700 FEL playback = visible FEL
C8 FEL playback = visible FEL
Shield FEL playback = No FEL data visible
p8 SL file = of course, no FEL data visible at all on all my devices

So this confirms that the Shield is not decoding the EL and is just using the dynamic metadata.
Also, the new update does not fix the red push issue :(

look for the FEL noise and compare it with the p8 sample which will be clean of noise :
Image



C8-fel / C8-p8-rpu / shield-fel / shield-p8-rpu / x700-FEL / x700-p8-rpu

Image Image Image Image Image Image
** please do not compare the colors of these pictures. this was just to show the FEL . I did not take time to get the same frame, lock the exposure etc...
Last edited by RESET_9999 on Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
shawnc22
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:40 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by shawnc22 »

RESET_9999 wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:53 am
These files are a mix of a BL and a random FEL track. This make the FEL data visible on top of the BL when played in DV so it easily tells us if the player just ignores the EL or if it actually use it. The P8 SL sample also has the same random RPU metadata.

Results:

x700 FEL playback = visible FEL
C8 FEL playback = visible FEL
Shield FEL playback = No FEL data visible at all
p8 sl file = of course no FEL data visible at all on all my devices

So this confirm that the Shield is not decoding the EL and is just using the dynamic metadata.
Also, the new update does not fix the red push issue :(
Kudos on the ingenious testing method! Unfortunately, the Shield ignoring EL was confirmed to me by an Nvidia staff as well. Not a shocker, but was still hoping for a surprise support nonetheless. Regarding the red push, where are you still seeing it on? I know it's still there for p7 DV rips, but I was under the impression that it was fixed for streaming content when they removed the BT2020 tag from the RGB signal. I haven't looked too closely or really cared to honestly, but curious to what you're still seeing.
agneva
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:42 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by agneva »

OLED CX9LA: no FEL visible, test ST DL FEL.ts can´t be played, test DT DL FEL.mp4 to dark.

UBK90: FEL visible at test DT DL FEL.mp4, p8 of course not, test ST DL FEL.ts can´t be played

as I wrote before :roll:
lexyz
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 5:32 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by lexyz »

I would like to add some info reagarding LLDV mode. Turns out there is a bug in Dolby SDK for all UHD Blu-ray players (and oppoclones as well)
This bug leads to noticable picture quality loss in LLDV mode like muted colors, limited brightness and various artefacts.
Probably you already familiar with this video by HDTVtest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_a77zJTrO4
Sadly Vincent Theo is wrong in conlusion. Difference caused not by additional data from TV but by a bug in Dolby SDK

Shield TV and FireStick and probably any other DV capable device (exept UHD Blu-ray player) are free from this bug

So yeah... fellow Bravia owners there is not so many options for us to enjoy DV besides streaming :D

X700/Oppo/Panny - FEL is used, dimness, bugged picture
Shield TV - FEL is ignored, red push
Fire TV Stick - FEL is unplayable, low specs for UHD backups

Is Zidoo the only viable option for now?
Bravia XF90, Shield TV Pro'19, UBP-X700
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