Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

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DaMacFunkin
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:17 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by DaMacFunkin » Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:35 pm

koolkunz wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:25 am
I have been trying a lot of sample files posted here on my new sony bravia x90h tv. It can play basically all MEL files (mp4/ts/mkv) and all profile8.1 files but havent been able to find a way to get any FEL file trigger dolby vision, is it simply not possible to play FEL files on sony tvs without external hardware player?

Also I have one other question, any FEL file converted to MEL vs the same FEL file converted to profile 8.1, what is supposed to look better? (MEL file should look better right as 8.1 has no enhancement layer and only dynamic metadata?)
No, Sony doesn’t support full Dolby (FEL).
Also no one is sure what is happening with these FEL players that actually play them, is the enhancement getting discarded?

koolkunz
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:03 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by koolkunz » Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:42 pm

Testing that should be pretty easy I guess? Just take comparison photographs in a pitch black room on a good tv. Comparing FEL file vs MEL file for the same movie?

DaMacFunkin
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:17 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by DaMacFunkin » Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:26 pm

koolkunz wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:42 pm
Testing that should be pretty easy I guess? Just take comparison photographs in a pitch black room on a good tv. Comparing FEL file vs MEL file for the same movie?
Maybe in all these files we are just getting HDR10 with dynamic metadata.

I know for a fact that original Dual Track DV on the Oppo203 is better than any rip played back via an Android player that I have seen.

koolkunz
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:03 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by koolkunz » Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:59 pm

DaMacFunkin wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:26 pm
koolkunz wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:42 pm
Testing that should be pretty easy I guess? Just take comparison photographs in a pitch black room on a good tv. Comparing FEL file vs MEL file for the same movie?
Maybe in all these files we are just getting HDR10 with dynamic metadata.

I know for a fact that original Dual Track DV on the Oppo203 is better than any rip played back via an Android player that I have seen.
If there is a difference in those files then they cant all just be hdr10 with dynamic metadata..one of them has to be proper DV?

userr
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:10 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by userr » Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:06 pm

DaMacFunkin wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:26 pm
koolkunz wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:42 pm
Testing that should be pretty easy I guess? Just take comparison photographs in a pitch black room on a good tv. Comparing FEL file vs MEL file for the same movie?
Maybe in all these files we are just getting HDR10 with dynamic metadata.

I know for a fact that original Dual Track DV on the Oppo203 is better than any rip played back via an Android player that I have seen.
What kind of "original dual track DV" ? Ripped DTDL profile7? or from the disc?

shawnc22
Posts: 475
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:40 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by shawnc22 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:28 pm

userr wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:06 pm
DaMacFunkin wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:26 pm
koolkunz wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:42 pm
Testing that should be pretty easy I guess? Just take comparison photographs in a pitch black room on a good tv. Comparing FEL file vs MEL file for the same movie?
Maybe in all these files we are just getting HDR10 with dynamic metadata.

I know for a fact that original Dual Track DV on the Oppo203 is better than any rip played back via an Android player that I have seen.
What kind of "original dual track DV" ? Ripped DTDL profile7? or from the disc?
the oppo can just play the full folder backups without any extra modifications.

lexyz
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 5:32 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by lexyz » Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:41 pm

DaMacFunkin wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:26 pm
Maybe in all these files we are just getting HDR10 with dynamic metadata.

I know for a fact that original Dual Track DV on the Oppo203 is better than any rip played back via an Android player that I have seen.
You can think about STDL version as Schrödinger's Dolby Vision - It's equal and unequal to DTDL at the same time :lol:
Bravia XF90, Shield TV Pro'19, UBP-X700

DaMacFunkin
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:17 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by DaMacFunkin » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:51 pm

lexyz wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:41 pm
DaMacFunkin wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:26 pm
Maybe in all these files we are just getting HDR10 with dynamic metadata.

I know for a fact that original Dual Track DV on the Oppo203 is better than any rip played back via an Android player that I have seen.
You can think about STDL version as Schrödinger's Dolby Vision - It's equal and unequal to DTDL at the same time :lol:
Maybe, I certainly think that there is a way, Sony LLDV works and it is a fudge, I’m quite sure there that the fudges can work, we are definitely closer than we was.

kws53
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 9:09 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by kws53 » Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:36 am

badrobot wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:08 pm
kws53 wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:51 pm
Ultimately, I need SOMETHING to trigger DV in the Shield...
You need to update Shield Pro Plex Client version to 8.8.0.
Indeed! 8.8.1 triggers DV on all of my GAMMA profile 8 and profile 7 MKV files, the Alpha Muxed files and the original TSMuxer method. I just hope that I'm getting DV and not simply showing as triggered. As a result, I intend to use the GAMMA MKV method going forward.

Very impressive Yusesope!

koolkunz
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:03 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by koolkunz » Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:12 am

DaMacFunkin wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:51 pm
lexyz wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:41 pm
DaMacFunkin wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:26 pm
Maybe in all these files we are just getting HDR10 with dynamic metadata.

I know for a fact that original Dual Track DV on the Oppo203 is better than any rip played back via an Android player that I have seen.
You can think about STDL version as Schrödinger's Dolby Vision - It's equal and unequal to DTDL at the same time :lol:
Maybe, I certainly think that there is a way, Sony LLDV works and it is a fudge, I’m quite sure there that the fudges can work, we are definitely closer than we was.
Btw the Sony X90H is the first sony tv to support proper TV led dolby vision. (They added this in a recent software update - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2WDVRR4WV0), Does that effect the possibility of playing FEL files directly on the TV without using external player?

yusesope
Posts: 221
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:34 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by yusesope » Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:56 am

PlatypusW wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:40 pm
CX48 - Played via USB using the internal player:
DTDL_FEL_1: "This file cannot be recognised. Do you want to play the next file?"
DTDL_FEL_2: "This file cannot be recognised. Do you want to play the next file?"
DTDL_FEL_3: "This file cannot be recognised. Do you want to play the next file?"
DTDL_FEL_4: "This file cannot be recognised. Do you want to play the next file?"
quietvoid wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:30 pm
On my LG C8, via DLNA, they all show the endless spinning wheel and never start playing back.
Same behavior as the latest mp4muxer when creating dual track mp4s.
daddy wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:16 am
On LG C7, all 4 files = spinning wheel and never start playing back.
kws53 wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:51 pm
In summary:
  • All DTDL MP4 test files triggered DV for x700 - may or may not be buffering issues, files too small
  • ..................................
Ok, we are getting closer to emulating the behavior of the latest version of mp4muxer: the new LGs do not recognize files, the "old" LGs recognize files but cannot play them, X700 recognizes and plays the files.
quietvoid wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:30 pm
I thought you took inspiration from that code though. Maybe you could find a significant difference between 2018 and now's code.
It takes time (which I don't have :( ) and it would be like looking for a needle in a haystack :roll: .
It would be much easier to evaluate the output products of the two versions instead.
I have compared two versions of Terminator - Dark Fate and to my surprise, they are identical. The only differences identified are related to the Bytes of "creation time" and "modification time" of the file as regards the atoms mvhd (image), tkhd and mdhd. Insignificant differences and therefore the two files can be considered the same.
Image

I'm sure you know how to use a hex editor and maybe you could try it too and maybe you're luckier than me.
Just compare the two files (only video, no audio): if you spot a significant difference I might try to modify the behavior of my tool to emulate it!


cuculain wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:40 pm
Zidoo Z9X .... panasonic z1000 oled ....all 4 played hdr pq only ...no stutters
Zidoo Z9X and panasonic z1000 cannot play DTDL files - it is normal to get only HDR.


kws53 wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:36 am
Indeed! 8.8.1 triggers DV on all of my GAMMA profile 8 and profile 7 MKV files, the Alpha Muxed files and the original TSMuxer method. I just hope that I'm getting DV and not simply showing as triggered. As a result, I intend to use the GAMMA MKV method going forward.

Very impressive Yusesope!
In the end you succeeded... :D

At this point, update your previous post (regarding the results on the Shield 2019) and to be sure check again the DTDL mp4 files with the X700 following the instructions of the wise @RESET_9999
RESET_9999 wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:50 am
the x700 OSD will show ''Dolby Vision HDR'' for real DV and ''HDR'' only for fake DV.



DaMacFunkin wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:26 pm
Maybe in all these files we are just getting HDR10 with dynamic metadata.
HDR10 with dynamic metadata is HDR10+.

The only Android device capable of "playing" FEL files is the new Shield.
There remains the problem of the "red push".
However, the problem also occurs with MEL files.
MEL files (original or converted with my tool) play perfectly on the FireStick 4K.

I'm not an electrical engineer but Dolby would have no interest in building different chips for different devices! It is cheaper to distribute the same specifications to make the various manufacturers realize the same hardware decoder (FPGAs, SoCs, etc ...). What changes is the firmware implementation that must take into account the other characteristics of the device: CPU power, RAM quantity, etc ...

The FireStick 4K plays MEL files correctly, the Shield does not. The FireStick therefore has a better software implementation.
If you remember, the "red color problem" also plagued the DV profile 5 on the new Shield. The problem has been corrected with a software update. :D
The Fire Stick 4K cannot play FEL files due to hardware limitations (CPU, RAM, etc.)

stupid example: take a new nVidia RTX 3090 and use it on a system with an Intel i9-10900K and on a system with an older Pentium 4. The GPU is the same: will you have the same FPS in game? Will you be able to play a 4K video on both PCs?

DaMacFunkin wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:49 pm
Hi Yusesope, can you explain why you think FEL titles created with Gamma 004 don’t trigger DV on Zidoo Z9X regardless of which conversion to MEL or profile is used?
I don't know the device at all, so I don't have a clue ...
Last edited by yusesope on Sun Nov 01, 2020 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

ghostshadow
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:25 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by ghostshadow » Sun Nov 01, 2020 10:12 am

Zidoo Z9x, Z10 Pro etc :
the DV conversion by the yusesope method to Profile 8 works perfectly. I tested Fel and Mel and transformed into Profile 8 and they work !!
The problem with the Atmos TrueHD DV + Track does not come from the conversion or the method used!
it comes from the Zidoo Firmware. For proof it is enough to :Went back into Realtek developer options, switched "reserve less buffer" space off and enabled "Enable Playback Performance mode (experimental)". And the most desynchronization after 15 minutes. There are a few jerks, but it works (at the end of the viewing (1 hour) I had a red screen).
So the solution for the DV + Atmos TrueHD will come from a correction of the Zidoo Firmware.
So playing all UHD DV with the yusesope method allows them to be played in MKV DV on the zidoo.
Midway, Justice Ligue, GOT 8 ---> ok

koolkunz
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:03 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by koolkunz » Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:11 pm

yusesope wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:37 pm
The weekend has come! It's time to experiment!

HERE (UPDATE 22/10/20) you can find what I was working on last weekend.
This is v0.0.4 GAMMA "only for the brave" edition!
It is a partial job, there is no guarantee that it will work, but first of all I have to understand if I am proceeding on the right path and to do it I need to understand what is wrong. The tests that I can do alone are a limited number so "unity is strength": the more tests we do, the more errors we will discover and there will be more chances for me to be able to correct what doesn't work!

The new tool only works on Windows (for now): I'm sure that people who use Linux are ready to use their quadruple boot :mrgreen: or already have QEMU running in the background :lol: .
When I experiment on Windows I often use THESE virtual machines (fast and clean method). The login password is "Passw0rd!"
I tried to convert First Man 2018 to MEL mkv using this method and the resultant file is detected correctly as Dolby Vision but the audio is out of sync from the beginning, comparing the generated file to the original m2ts stream and FEL mkv created using makemkv 1.15.3.

Duration of playlist from BD-Info: 2:20:59.909
Duration of M2TS file: 2:20:59.936
Duration of FEL MKV created by MakeMKV 1.15.3: 2:20:59.909
Duration of FEL to MEL converted MKV created by GAMMA tool: 2:21:00.076

And I can confirm after doing frame by frame timestamp comparison that the MKV created by the GAMMA tool the video is behind by 7-8 frames.

Edit: Manually setting audio delay of around 170ms seems to fix the issue but this shouldn't be happening right?

Is there a solution for this? Or has this happened due to something I did wrong?
Last edited by koolkunz on Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DaMacFunkin
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:17 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by DaMacFunkin » Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:11 pm

ghostshadow wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 10:12 am
Zidoo Z9x, Z10 Pro etc :
the DV conversion by the yusesope method to Profile 8 works perfectly. I tested Fel and Mel and transformed into Profile 8 and they work !!
The problem with the Atmos TrueHD DV + Track does not come from the conversion or the method used!
it comes from the Zidoo Firmware. For proof it is enough to :Went back into Realtek developer options, switched "reserve less buffer" space off and enabled "Enable Playback Performance mode (experimental)". And the most desynchronization after 15 minutes. There are a few jerks, but it works (at the end of the viewing (1 hour) I had a red screen).
So the solution for the DV + Atmos TrueHD will come from a correction of the Zidoo Firmware.
So playing all UHD DV with the yusesope method allows them to be played in MKV DV on the zidoo.
Midway, Justice Ligue, GOT 8 ---> ok
Hi,

Can I ask which guide you used to create profile 8.1 MEL from FEL that triggers DV on Zidoo Z9X?

The titles I have created with Gamma 004 only trigger HDR10.

P.S. thanks for posting my workaround for the Realtek developer options.

DaMacFunkin
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:17 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by DaMacFunkin » Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:20 pm

yusesope wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:56 am
DaMacFunkin wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:49 pm
Hi Yusesope, can you explain why you think FEL titles created with Gamma 004 don’t trigger DV on Zidoo Z9X regardless of which conversion to MEL or profile is used?
I don't know the device at all, so I don't have a clue ...
Mirror from Zidoo offered you one for free a few weeks ago...😬

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