AACS 2.1 support

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SamuriHL
Posts: 1237
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by SamuriHL » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:13 pm

mike admin wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:12 pm
SamuriHL wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:01 am
I usually create a protected iso while waiting for makemkv to support new titles.
Why ISO? (I mean "why" in a sense "what is the benefit", not to offend you or discuss what particular workflow or tools are better.)
Why not non-decrypted backup (same as ISO but files). Is there any "standard" for protected ISO, i.e. where all the key-related information is stored in SIO, that normally gets stored in iscatt.dat of MakeMKV backup?
What usually happens next after "protected" iso is mounted - convert to mkv (why not file->open then), decrypted backup, any other tools?
Force of habit I suppose tbh. I never really thought about doing it as an encrypted file backup but that's certainly a better option. You are correct that a protected ISO does *NOT* store any information. Which is why I activate LibreDrive before making the ISO with ImgBurn on my NS60 (non-friendly drive). From that protected ISO I usually end up mounting it in Virtual CloneDrive and letting MakeMKV make a decrypted folder backup. So, my workflow is pretty terrible compared to just creating an encrypted folder backup. :) Ultimately I do use the decrypted folder backup with other tools, so, I do want a full backup, but, as you said, there's no benefit to using ISO. I may stop doing that now that you pointed this out. Much appreciated, sir!

SamuriHL
Posts: 1237
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by SamuriHL » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:17 pm

mike admin wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:33 pm
Coopervid wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:51 pm
I think the answer is quite easy. Making a protected ISO and then mounting it with either Windows 10 or any other tool gives us the opportunity to decrypt it with whatever software that is capable to decrypt this disc first. Be it your software or your competitor's. Sometimes your program is first, sometimes the competition is first.
The ISO format has no means to save key-related metadata from the disc, and without such metadata it is impossible to decrypt the ISO when bus-encryption is not disabled (with LibreDrive for example).
My first question is whether AnyDVD uses some sort of extension to save such metadata, and whether CloneDrive or whatever can use such metadata and emulate the protected disc. I honestly don't know, but I doubt it.

When making a non-decrypted backup with MakeMKV, all disc key-related metadata is saved to the file discatt.dat . Without this file decryption is often hard or even impossible. I wonder how it is handled in case of "protected" iso.

The second question - are there any different results when opening a mounted ISO versus File->open command in MakeMKV (it can open ISO files directly, just in case). If they are, I ought to make a support whatever ISO extensions AnyDVD uses.
They don't, afik, have any ISO extensions. But while we're on this topic, one thing that WOULD be nice if you could add it is the ability to create a decrypted folder backup from a protected ISO. Again, I plan on stop using that process anyway, but, that's the only reason people would need to mount a protected ISO...is if they want a full folder backup with MakeMKV. You could cut out the mounting requirement by offering this function. Just something to consider.

hernanez
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 7:10 pm

Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by hernanez » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:10 pm

mike admin wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:12 pm
Why ISO? (I mean "why" in a sense "what is the benefit", not to offend you or discuss what particular workflow or tools are better.)
Why not non-decrypted backup (same as ISO but files). Is there any "standard" for protected ISO, i.e. where all the key-related information is stored in SIO, that normally gets stored in iscatt.dat of MakeMKV backup?
What usually happens next after "protected" iso is mounted - convert to mkv (why not file->open then), decrypted backup, any other tools?
For me, the reason is that I have not found a way in MakeMKV to do a *full backup* of a disc from a folder backup. When I load the discatt file it goes into remux mkv mode and no option for decrypted full backup.
I'd be happy to hear if such a possibility is available and I somehow managed to miss it.

hernanez
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 7:10 pm

Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by hernanez » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:21 pm

TeddyRaspin wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:44 pm
In order to avoid physical scratches I always made a protected ISO first, then I mount it via Windows 10 Pro mount option (right click on ISO image files),
I open it with MakeMKV and it always decrypt it without any issues at all.
Assuming you were answering me...I was asking how you do the protected iso, As MakeMKV doesn't do ISOs on it's own. Do you first make a standard folder backup with
MakeMKV and then build an ISO from that?

Coopervid
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:32 pm

Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by Coopervid » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:27 pm

Haven't done it myself but as far as I understand it works this way:

Put UHD in optical drive
Run Makemkv and do nothing else. It will just enable LibreDrive to circumvent bus encrytion etc.
Make a protected ISO with other tools using the drive letter of the optical drive

SamuriHL
Posts: 1237
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by SamuriHL » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:37 pm

I can confirm what Teddy is seeing. An AnyDVD made protected ISO gives hash errors. A protected ISO made with my script (i.e. scan the disc with makemkvcon and put the drive into LibreDrive mode, then create the ISO with ImgBurn) works without issue.

hernanez
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 7:10 pm

Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by hernanez » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:39 pm

Coopervid wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:27 pm
Haven't done it myself but as far as I understand it works this way:

Put UHD in optical drive
Run Makemkv and do nothing else. It will just enable LibreDrive to circumvent bus encrytion etc.
Make a protected ISO with other tools using the drive letter of the optical drive
Hmm, but without MakeMKV involved in making the backup there will not be a discatt.dat file made, or is it not needed anymore with LiberDrive active?

SamuriHL
Posts: 1237
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by SamuriHL » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:40 pm

hernanez wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:10 pm
mike admin wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:12 pm
Why ISO? (I mean "why" in a sense "what is the benefit", not to offend you or discuss what particular workflow or tools are better.)
Why not non-decrypted backup (same as ISO but files). Is there any "standard" for protected ISO, i.e. where all the key-related information is stored in SIO, that normally gets stored in iscatt.dat of MakeMKV backup?
What usually happens next after "protected" iso is mounted - convert to mkv (why not file->open then), decrypted backup, any other tools?
For me, the reason is that I have not found a way in MakeMKV to do a *full backup* of a disc from a folder backup. When I load the discatt file it goes into remux mkv mode and no option for decrypted full backup.
I'd be happy to hear if such a possibility is available and I somehow managed to miss it.
Yea, ok, this is bringing back memories. Exactly. You can't make a decrypted folder backup you can only use the encrypted folder to make MKV's which is fine for most people but I want to process the decrypted folders with other tools, as well.

Coopervid
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:32 pm

Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by Coopervid » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:02 pm

Coopervid wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:27 pm
Haven't done it myself but as far as I understand it works this way:

Put UHD in optical drive
Run Makemkv and do nothing else. It will just enable LibreDrive to circumvent bus encrytion etc.
Make a protected ISO with other tools using the drive letter of the optical drive
Can please anybody try this method? Thank you!

SamuriHL
Posts: 1237
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by SamuriHL » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:52 pm

That method is wrong. Just loading makemkv and doing nothing will in fact do nothing. The disc has to be scanned.

In any case I already said it works. I use makemkvcon to scan the disc and them imgburn to create the iso. Makemkv opened it without issue. The anydvd created iso had hash issues.

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hernanez
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 7:10 pm

Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by hernanez » Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:31 am

SamuriHL wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:52 pm
I use makemkvcon to scan the disc and them imgburn to create the iso.
When you say *scan* you mean "makemkvcon --decrypt" ?
What I'm trying to understand is how you get the discatt.dat created without makemkv back, as from what I understood, this file is essential for future decrypting and will be need in you ISO.

SamuriHL
Posts: 1237
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by SamuriHL » Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:10 am

No. I mean scan. If you enable libredrive you don't need any file other than the protected iso because it's not bus encrypted. I'll post the exact command I use later. It's something like makemkvcon64 info # where # is the drive number. This will put the drive in libredrive mode until you eject the disc. Which disables bus encryption, allowing you read the raw protected iso. At that point you only need the title key (and whatever magic is used for aacs 2.1 but it seems to work with a proper protected iso) to decrypt it.

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TeddyRaspin
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:41 pm

Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by TeddyRaspin » Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:18 am

@all

Any purchased 4K UHD disc is scanned by MakeMKV and it doesn't matter if that disc is already supported
or not (i.e. if the hashed key for decryption already exists or not). Thus, the method I've always used about
the "protected iso" option (from AnyDVD HD as main tool to do that) is for the following reasons:

1) This avoids physical scratches of any purchased 4K disc and the whole disc structure in 1 big file (ISO).

2) As it always happens my purchased titles are not yet supported by MakeMKV, I always send dumps to Mike
in order to extend the hashed key file (HK/SDF) for support them and I prefer to keep those unsupported titles
in ISO format (protected of course as explained before).

3) When HK/SDF file is updated, I can simply mount the ISO I've created before (protected of course) and MakeMKV
finds the needed hashed key to decrypt the whole disc checking, as always, the integrity of M2TS files via hash
check control.

Now, while for AACS 2.0 protected ISO images there is no issues at all, with AACS 2.1 iso images, this method always
fails. But I've found, as SamuriHL wrote, that this is due to AnyDVD and not to my readers.

Therefore, Mike can sleep beautiful dreams as his own software is simply amazing and the current version is working fine. :wink:

SamuriHL
Posts: 1237
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by SamuriHL » Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:54 am

Yup everything you just wrote is correct. I had forgotten that you can't create an unprotected folder from an encrypted folder which is why I stuck with protected iso. Now if Mike wants to add either 1) ability to open a protected iso directly and create an unprotected folder backup and/or 2) The ability to create an unprotected folder backup from an encrypted folder backup then my method might change. My ultimate goal is to get an unprotected folder backup for discs that aren't initially supported when I buy them. Like teddy, I only want to handle the disc once and put it on the shelf. And there are other tools besides makemkv that I use in my process so I need an unprotected folder.

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hernanez
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 7:10 pm

Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by hernanez » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:14 pm

SamuriHL wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:10 am
I'll post the exact command I use later. It's something like makemkvcon64 info # where # is the drive number. This will put the drive in libredrive mode until you eject the disc. Which disables bus encryption, allowing you read the raw protected iso. At that point you only need the title key (and whatever magic is used for aacs 2.1 but it seems to work with a proper protected iso) to decrypt it.
That would be great. Thanks.
So what you are doing is sort of like what AnyDVD does if I got it right. Using MakeMKV as a background process.

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