AACS 2.1 support

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mike admin
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Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by mike admin » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:11 pm

flashback8 wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:39 am
It had to do with some frames having alternate versions included, and all the frames being usable by the studios to determine which keys were used to pick up those frames and create rips.
In theory, one can have 65534 variants of the movie on one disc - all being "correct" but slightly different. In practice, for all discs so far, the audio and video data is identical, except for some non-video metadata in first h.265 nal. So any variant would produce the same content for 5 discs released to date.

SamuriHL
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Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by SamuriHL » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:15 pm

mike admin wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:11 pm
flashback8 wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:39 am
It had to do with some frames having alternate versions included, and all the frames being usable by the studios to determine which keys were used to pick up those frames and create rips.
In theory, one can have 65534 variants of the movie on one disc - all being "correct" but slightly different. In practice, for all discs so far, the audio and video data is identical, except for some non-video metadata in first h.265 nal. So any variant would produce the same content for 5 discs released to date.
Oh joy. That means it can evolve. How....fun. :D Thanks for the info!

SamuriHL
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Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by SamuriHL » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:22 pm

(With apologies to Mike as I know this isn't the AnyDVD forum)

Redfox has released a new version that fixes the ability of AnyDVD to create protected ISO images of AACS 2.1 discs. I have tested that the resulting ISO can be opened with MakeMKV and processed without error. MakeMKV, of course, having support for AACS 2.1. ;)

hernanez
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Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by hernanez » Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:36 am

SamuriHL wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:22 pm
Redfox has released a new version that fixes the ability of AnyDVD to create protected ISO images of AACS 2.1 discs. I have tested that the resulting ISO can be opened with MakeMKV and processed without error. MakeMKV, of course, having support for AACS 2.1. ;)
This still requires scanning the disc first to LiberDrive though?

SamuriHL
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Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by SamuriHL » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:23 am

No. They fixed anydvd so that they are able to create a proper protected iso with aacs 2.1 discs. Libredrive is needed if you use something like imgburn to create the iso, however.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


hernanez
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Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by hernanez » Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:50 pm

I guess that applies for normal 2.0 too then?
From what I recall standard anydvd iso backups were not working for me with MakeMKV due to lack of discatt.dat

mike admin
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Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by mike admin » Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:00 pm

hernanez wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:50 pm
From what I recall standard anydvd iso backups were not working for me with MakeMKV due to lack of discatt.dat
The discatt.dat is needed for two things:
1. If bus encryption is present, then discatt.dat contains the read key for bus encryption
2. It contains vid metadata from the disc. Without it it is impossible to derive keys in a first place. But if the key is already known, then it is not needed.

So, if you have a proper "protected" ISO (without bus encryption), you will be able to decrypt it with MakeMKV as long as someone else had sent me the proper dump. You won't ever be able to make an AACS dump out of this ISO.

SamuriHL
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Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by SamuriHL » Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:08 pm

mike admin wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:00 pm
hernanez wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:50 pm
From what I recall standard anydvd iso backups were not working for me with MakeMKV due to lack of discatt.dat
The discatt.dat is needed for two things:
1. If bus encryption is present, then discatt.dat contains the read key for bus encryption
2. It contains vid metadata from the disc. Without it it is impossible to derive keys in a first place. But if the key is already known, then it is not needed.

So, if you have a proper "protected" ISO (without bus encryption), you will be able to decrypt it with MakeMKV as long as someone else had sent me the proper dump. You won't ever be able to make an AACS dump out of this ISO.
Exactly! A non-bus encrypted protected ISO is what we use. And because my script is doing the makemkvcon info scan of the disc before the ImgBurn ISO is created, it generates the MakeMKV log that needs to be sent to you, too. :D Really kind of a win-win there. :) But those who create the protected ISO with AnyDVD simply need to wait for the keys to be added by you (assuming they made a MakeMKV log and sent it or wait for someone else to do it).

hernanez
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Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by hernanez » Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:50 pm

When I first started buying those discs, I used to do encrypted isos with anydvd as it was the easiest option. Those almost never worked for me. It was a long while ago, but if my memory is correct, MakeMKV was throwing a ton of scsi errors followed by this discs can't be decrypted. I thought that maybe support was not added yet, but they often worked fine when I used the physical disc on MakeMKV. I think by then the hashed keys list was not being uploaded that often anymore, so I didn't have a way to know if they were supported already or not, so I waited a few days before trying them. Perhaps the anydvd encrypted iso creation was updated at some point, I just stopped trying due to previous fails.
I had several cases that those discs were barely readable to begin with, so getting them backed up was rather important in case they'll fail next time I try.

SamuriHL
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Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by SamuriHL » Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:52 pm

Until AACS 2.1 I've never had any real issue with protected ISO's, created with AnyDVD or with the LibreDrive/MakeMKV method. As long as the protected ISO is not bus encrypted in any way, MakeMKV should have no issue with it once MakeMKV has the title key. As Mike explained, you can't get the VID from an ISO so you can never generate a proper dump with one, but, as long as the dump from the original disc is created and sent to Mike, once the title key is added, the protected ISO is usable. What I'd love to see is MakeMKV give the option to directly open a protected ISO and create a decrypted folder backup from it. That would be very useful and save the step of having to mount it. I've been doing protected ISO's since the early blu-ray days when we could make them with a PS3 and never had any real problems with it.

hernanez
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Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by hernanez » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:19 pm

I was just making an ISO from the encrypted folder as anydvd isos would not work for me when I first started backing up my discs.
I know it won't work with the discs being supported by mike, but as I said those isos would not work for me even when the discs were already supported.
I'll give it another go. Could be something was improved in the iso making process that made them more compatible than in the time I tried this routine.
SamuriHL wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:52 pm
What I'd love to see is MakeMKV give the option to directly open a protected ISO and create a decrypted folder backup from it. That would be very useful and save the step of having to mount it. I've been doing protected ISO's since the early blu-ray days when we could make them with a PS3 and never had any real problems with it.
Not too bothered with that. mounting an iso is pretty much non effort. Option to open the encrypted folders as you open a mounted drive would be nice though.

SamuriHL
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Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by SamuriHL » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:40 pm

The reason I say it would be nice to have MakeMKV be able to open the ISO directly, especially I guess with this AACS 2.1 stuff not that it really matters for ISO, is that it cuts out the middle man. When you mount the ISO, MakeMKV treats it as another drive as it doesn't know any better. Therefore it tries and fails to see if it supports LibreDrive, which it doesn't, and then tries to send it a whole bunch of commands it doesn't support. None of this is problematic, just wasteful. Being able to directly open the ISO means that Mike knows it's an ISO and can treat it as such. Knowing that he won't have the VID or bus encryption keys, he might even be able to hash check the files and know whether the ISO was made correctly or not (I.E. was bus encryption properly stripped when it was made). Not having to mount it just means one less potential issue with using ISOs. At least, that's how I feel. Mike may feel different. Ultimately, if I can have a way where I can create a protected copy of the disc that can then be used to create a decrypted folder backup once the title key is known, I'm good however that looks.

Coopervid
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Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by Coopervid » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:00 pm

Excellent point, SamuriHl.

The Christmas wish list for mike gets longer, if you ask me: Making protected ISOs directly from Makemkv.

Coopervid
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Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by Coopervid » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:16 pm

@mike admin,

I mentioned this already in various unrelated other posts. The mkv file format doesn't cover all features anymore that are available on UHD discs today. Especially DolbyVison and HDR. Therefore I use makemkv only to decrypt UHDs and copy to folder w/o converting to mkv. My opinion is that this aspect that wasn't present in the past but should also move in your focus in the future. ISO support in Makemkv (protected and unprotected / read and write) is something you should really think about for that reason. Anyway -just my humble thoughts and it's always up to you what you think has priority for your software.

d00zah
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Re: AACS 2.1 support

Post by d00zah » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:53 pm

Coopervid wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:16 pm
@mike admin,

I mentioned this already in various unrelated other posts. The mkv file format doesn't cover all features anymore that are available on UHD discs today. Especially DolbyVison and HDR. Therefore I use makemkv only to decrypt UHDs and copy to folder w/o converting to mkv. My opinion is that this aspect that wasn't present in the past but should also move in your focus in the future. ISO support in Makemkv (protected and unprotected / read and write) is something you should really think about for that reason. Anyway -just my humble thoughts and it's always up to you what you think has priority for your software.
I don''t intend to be unkind, but SamuriHL has provided a 'formula' for easily accomplishing this using a freely available tool, with the aid of MakeMKV (which was designed to...) & you continue to be stuck on extending an elegantly simple app beyond it's intended scope. Is it really such a difficult procedure as it stands?

I DO understand a desire to expand the .iso READING capability to produce an .mkv... makes sense.

Granted, it's always Mike's call, but as this feature has been requested for years (search!) & never materialized, it seems to be beating a dead horse... for the umteenth time. I vaguely recall a response of "there are other apps that already do that", but am unsure of the attribution.

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