Midway 2019 4K (new BD-J protection?)

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Bluntman
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Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:30 pm

Midway 2019 4K (new BD-J protection?)

Post by Bluntman » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:43 pm

A competitor with word fab In their name claims Midway uses some new sort of BD-J protection and they are the first ones to support it.

I realize it isn’t out yet. It comes out here Feb 18th. So I’ll find out soon. I’m just starting this thread early because I’m curious if anyone, perhaps even mike himself. Might share what’s so special about this implementation of the BD-J protection on this 4K BRay.

Insight or explanation appreciated.

Regards.


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SamuriHL
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Re: Midway 2019 4K (new BD-J protection?)

Post by SamuriHL » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:33 am

Nothing whatsoever is "special" about it other than it's the first screen pass protection seen on UHD. Screen pass is the so-called fake playlist protection we find all over blu-ray discs. The same principle will apply to UHD.

Bluntman
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:30 pm

Re: Midway 2019 4K (new BD-J protection?)

Post by Bluntman » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:26 pm

SamuriHL wrote:Nothing whatsoever is "special" about it other than it's the first screen pass protection seen on UHD. Screen pass is the so-called fake playlist protection we find all over blu-ray discs. The same principle will apply to UHD.
Ask and ye shall receive lol. Thanks for the info SamuriHL. Much appreciated indeed.

Regards


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Rew452
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Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:43 am

Re: Midway 2019 4K (new BD-J protection?)

Post by Rew452 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:43 pm

Actually I am seeing an issue with this UHD disc backup using Makemkv as well.

I have a modified Oppo UDP-203 which can play all my UHD disc backups from my NAS without any problems until this one.
It won't even play using PowerDVD 19. All of my 90+ backups play just fine except, just no hdr since my pc monitor doesn't support HDR but can still play with out it.

At first I thought that I did the backup without ticking the "decrypt video files" so I re-did the backup making sure it was ticked but ended up with the same issue.

Anyone? Sure would like to figure this out. My Bluray mkv works fine as far as I tell.

Rew

SamuriHL
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Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: Midway 2019 4K (new BD-J protection?)

Post by SamuriHL » Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:48 pm

Welcome to screen pass. Unless it is properly handled by the decryption software, you won't get it to work right. ESPECIALLY if you're attempting to play it as a folder backup or mounted image or whatever. If you're attempting an MKV backup, you need the proper playlist to rip. Fun game isn't it? This is not a new protection, btw. It's only new to UHD.

Rew452
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:43 am

Re: Midway 2019 4K (new BD-J protection?)

Post by Rew452 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:59 pm

Hi SamuriHL,
Yes, I know this but isn't decryption part makemkv?
I did notice that I had to use anydvd to get the right playlist when doing the bluray mkv of this disc.

So is there anyway to fix this on the uhd disc backup function of makemkv or do I have to wait for the next release?

Thanks
Rew

SamuriHL
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Re: Midway 2019 4K (new BD-J protection?)

Post by SamuriHL » Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:14 pm

You say you "know this" yet have missed the point twice. :) Decryption is not the same as dealing with screen pass. Decryption is removing AACS encryption. MakeMKV does that just fine. Screen pass, however, is a frack ton of fake playlists that are embedded on the disc that needs to be "corrected" for once the AACS protection is removed. (Essentially from how I understand this stupid thing is that when an original disc is played on a licensed player there's a java routine run inside the BD Java runtime that does a bunch of checks...those checks return the proper playlist. As soon as you remove AACS you've changed the result of those checks, and therefore the wrong playlist is chosen. That's what you're running into.) So until the java runtime on the disc is fixed to give the proper playlist after the AACS protection is removed, you will continue to have issues. That's not a decryption issue. That's a protection issue. And I believe for blu-ray MakeMKV has some kind of process to handle it if you install a java runtime and tell it where it is. I don't know because I don't use MakeMKV to deal with this kind of annoying protection on blu-ray. And this is the first UHD that's included it.

rdgrimes
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:30 pm

Re: Midway 2019 4K (new BD-J protection?)

Post by rdgrimes » Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:43 pm

That other software does not support Midway UHD in full disc copy mode, only in ripper mode. Pretty standard handling of Screenpass in that particular software.

Anyways, they report #504 as the correct playlist. MakeMKV is not yet able to find the right playlist on its own.

Rew452
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:43 am

Re: Midway 2019 4K (new BD-J protection?)

Post by Rew452 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:52 pm

Thanks for your patience and time to explain what I am seeing on this disk backup.

You are right I did not fully understand the true issue with this disc. Is there a good way to fix this type protection or are we stuck with this issue for now? Using bdmv works pretty good up to now for me preserving HDR info for playback.

I had seen this multiple playlist issue on blurays but did't know it was not used much on UHD's until now.

Again thanks for your help.
Rew

SamuriHL
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Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: Midway 2019 4K (new BD-J protection?)

Post by SamuriHL » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:09 pm

A different product is able to fix the disc structure on the fly when the AACS encryption is removed so that any consequent ISO or folder backup will have the corrected jars on the backup. This is beyond the capability of MakeMKV and the product rdgrimes was mentioning. As for "preserving HDR info", MKV does that quite nicely except for Dolby Vision. I do all my backups in MKV because I'm using madvr for dynamic tone mapping which gets it very close to what Dolby Vision can do

In any case, this is literally the first UHD that has included screen pass. Fun times. :)

BobbyD1891
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Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 6:31 pm

Re: Midway 2019 4K (new BD-J protection?)

Post by BobbyD1891 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:49 pm

Is playlist 504 confirmed?

SamuriHL
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Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: Midway 2019 4K (new BD-J protection?)

Post by SamuriHL » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:21 pm

It's what mine shows. I just did a full disc backup with MakeMKV and plan on ripping 00504 to MKV from that.

tokapaho
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:48 pm

Re: Midway 2019 4K (new BD-J protection?)

Post by tokapaho » Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:30 am

SamuriHL wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:21 pm
It's what mine shows. I just did a full disc backup with MakeMKV and plan on ripping 00504 to MKV from that.
Any update on 00504.mpls being the correct playlist?

SamuriHL
Posts: 1365
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: Midway 2019 4K (new BD-J protection?)

Post by SamuriHL » Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:50 am

Well, it's what DVDFab shows as being correct. I won't get to watch it til this weekend. MakeMKV, even with java installed, did not show me a correct playlist. And AnyDVD doesn't have the title key yet. So, this is the best we have.

nicholfd
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:22 pm

Re: Midway 2019 4K (new BD-J protection?)

Post by nicholfd » Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:07 am

Made an un-decrypted disc copy. MakeMKV indicated 762 was the FPL_MainFeature. I ripped 504 & 762 from the encrypted disc copy.

I watched 504 next to the physical disc playing on an Xbox One X. It matched, chapter beginning to chapter beginning on each player.

Watching 762, it's obviously wrong. Segment map comparison is below:

504: 502,501,503,500,506,507,505
762: 506,507,501,500,502,503,505

Just posting this to help confirm 504 appears correct, and hopeful that the MakeMKV folks can improve the main feature detection.

I'll keep the encrypted disc copy for a while if anyone wants more information about it or more testing.

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