Official Dolby Vision MKV spec support

Please post here for issues related to UHD discs
andcbii
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:36 pm

Re: Official Dolby Vision MKV spec support

Post by andcbii » Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:42 am

So, does 1.15.3 support DV MKVs out of the box now? Is there additional processing you have to do?

Cannikin
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:54 pm

Re: Official Dolby Vision MKV spec support

Post by Cannikin » Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:34 am

andcbii wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:42 am
So, does 1.15.3 support DV MKVs out of the box now? Is there additional processing you have to do?
Yep, 1.15.2+ works out of the box! It creates MKV files which include DV.

Playback is a different story. Currently Plex running on a 2019 Nvidia Shield will play them and trigger DV on a DV-compatible TV.

If you're not using Plex and/or Shield you'll need to research that on your own. I believe Kodi would play them back if you installed a forked version of Exoplayer (you can find that in this thread somewhere).

Menthe
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:44 pm

Re: Official Dolby Vision MKV spec support

Post by Menthe » Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:27 pm

tazlord wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:44 pm
Menthe wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:46 pm
Is it possible to re-encode MKV with Dolby Vision to get a smaller file and still get Dolby Atmos + Dolby Vision?
Short Answer: Not with MakeMKV

Long Answer:
Other tools allow you to re-encode the base layer and then merge that resulting file with the extended layer (the Dolby Vision layer). There's some sort of strange misconception that the extended layer only works with the original bitstream of the base layer. This is not entirely true. I have created dual-layer Dolby Vision MP4 files with re-compressed base layers and they play back just fine with players that support dual-layer DV with all extended color data in tact. As for single-layer implementations of this, there's only 1 software title commercially available that I'm aware of that can do it. However, it's not "free".

On a side (personal) note, I think using single-layer DV files is extremely limiting. Once those files are created, the extended color information is "burned" into a single stream. Although there are plenty of players out there that can "cope" with that method, there is a higher possibility of a player not being able to play the file. This is in contrast to the dual-layer method, which was specifically designed with compatibility in mind.
Is it possible that you can show me how i can do this?

20gb per westworld episode is quiet heavy in comparison with the 5gb before :D

agressiv
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:07 pm

Re: Official Dolby Vision MKV spec support

Post by agressiv » Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:27 pm

tazlord wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:44 pm
Menthe wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:46 pm
Is it possible to re-encode MKV with Dolby Vision to get a smaller file and still get Dolby Atmos + Dolby Vision?
As for single-layer implementations of this, there's only 1 software title commercially available that I'm aware of that can do it. However, it's not "free".
Do you have a name? I don't mind paying for good software. I certainly paid for MakeMKV!

eblackadder
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:32 pm

Re: Official Dolby Vision MKV spec support

Post by eblackadder » Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:03 am

I have succesfully made a few mkv's from my uhd backups. Now i want to add Dutch subs. Can i use MKVToolnix for this to put subs with the exsisting mkv file and mux it? Will i still have Dolby Vision on the output file?

Best regards

whiplash1
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:40 am

Re: Official Dolby Vision MKV spec support

Post by whiplash1 » Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:00 pm

eblackadder wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:03 am
I have succesfully made a few mkv's from my uhd backups. Now i want to add Dutch subs. Can i use MKVToolnix for this to put subs with the exsisting mkv file and mux it? Will i still have Dolby Vision on the output file?

Best regards
Yes, just make sure to use the latest version. It preserves the DV metadata.

eblackadder
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:32 pm

Re: Official Dolby Vision MKV spec support

Post by eblackadder » Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:05 pm

whiplash1 wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:00 pm
eblackadder wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:03 am
I have succesfully made a few mkv's from my uhd backups. Now i want to add Dutch subs. Can i use MKVToolnix for this to put subs with the exsisting mkv file and mux it? Will i still have Dolby Vision on the output file?

Best regards
Yes, just make sure to use the latest version. It preserves the DV metadata.
Thanks a lot for the confirmation!

tazlord
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:01 pm

Re: Official Dolby Vision MKV spec support

Post by tazlord » Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:16 pm

agressiv wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:27 pm
tazlord wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:44 pm
Menthe wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:46 pm
Is it possible to re-encode MKV with Dolby Vision to get a smaller file and still get Dolby Atmos + Dolby Vision?
As for single-layer implementations of this, there's only 1 software title commercially available that I'm aware of that can do it. However, it's not "free".
Do you have a name? I don't mind paying for good software. I certainly paid for MakeMKV!
I wasn't sure if I was allowed to mention it here but the software I was referring to is called DVDfab.

mike admin
Posts: 3898
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:26 am
Contact:

Re: Official Dolby Vision MKV spec support

Post by mike admin » Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:18 pm

tazlord wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:44 pm
Menthe wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:46 pm
Is it possible to re-encode MKV with Dolby Vision to get a smaller file and still get Dolby Atmos + Dolby Vision?
Short Answer: Not with MakeMKV
Long Answer:
Other tools allow you to re-encode the base layer and then merge that resulting file with the extended layer (the Dolby Vision layer). There's some sort of strange misconception that the extended layer only works with the original bitstream of the base layer. This is not entirely true. I have created dual-layer Dolby Vision MP4 files with re-compressed base layers and they play back just fine with players that support dual-layer DV with all extended color data in tact.
Do you need this functionality in MakeMKV? I.e. Ability to open "two MKV" and merge into one? First MKV being an original MKV file, and second - a re-encode by handbrake or whatever, and MakeMKV would combine the video from re-encode and all original tracks (sound+atmos) and DV layers from original file...

This is rather trivial to do, and you can chose any encoding tool...

tazlord
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:01 pm

Re: Official Dolby Vision MKV spec support

Post by tazlord » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:48 am

mike admin wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:18 pm
tazlord wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:44 pm
Menthe wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:46 pm
Is it possible to re-encode MKV with Dolby Vision to get a smaller file and still get Dolby Atmos + Dolby Vision?
Short Answer: Not with MakeMKV
Long Answer:
Other tools allow you to re-encode the base layer and then merge that resulting file with the extended layer (the Dolby Vision layer). There's some sort of strange misconception that the extended layer only works with the original bitstream of the base layer. This is not entirely true. I have created dual-layer Dolby Vision MP4 files with re-compressed base layers and they play back just fine with players that support dual-layer DV with all extended color data in tact.
Do you need this functionality in MakeMKV? I.e. Ability to open "two MKV" and merge into one? First MKV being an original MKV file, and second - a re-encode by handbrake or whatever, and MakeMKV would combine the video from re-encode and all original tracks (sound+atmos) and DV layers from original file...

This is rather trivial to do, and you can chose any encoding tool...
Actually, this would be awesome!
The absence of this functionality has pretty much put a hard stop on my moving forward with adding Dolby Vision titles to my library with the DV info in tact.

If you're open to suggestions, there are 3 ways that I can see this happening:
  1. Open an MKV file that contains two(2) video tracks. The first track is the (re-encoded) DV base layer. The second track is the DV enhanced layer. Then merge the two tracks into a single track that is DV single layer compliant.
    This would be my preferred method.
  2. Open two separate MKV files. The first file contains the DV base layer. The second file contains the DV enhanced layer. Then merge both files into single MKV file with a single video track that is DV single layer compliant.
    Speaking candidly, if option #1 can be achieved, I don't see much point in implementing this method (unless there are technical obstacles that I'm not aware of).
  3. Open an MP4 file that contains two(2) separate video tracks.
    This method would function exactly like option #1. The only difference is the ability to read an MP4 as the source.
    This method is optional and "nice to have" since it's actually relatively easy to demux MP4 files and create an MKV from the resulting bitstreams.
Let me know what you think.
Thanks!

mike admin
Posts: 3898
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:26 am
Contact:

Re: Official Dolby Vision MKV spec support

Post by mike admin » Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:33 am

tazlord wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:48 am
Open an MKV file that contains two(2) video tracks. The first track is the (re-encoded) DV base layer. The second track is the DV enhanced layer. Then merge the two tracks into a single track that is DV single layer compliant.
This is already done in upcoming 1.15.4 , but it was done mostly to please those who made double-layer DV MKVs before the spec was available. So, if MakeMKV sees two video tracks in MKV file, first being HEVC without DV EL and second being DV EL+RPU, it would merge them into one video track (the track order is important, DV layer must be second video track).

This however does not solve the re-encoding problem - if you have a proper DV MKV file with a single video track, you can open and re-encode it as base layer in handbrake, but you would end up with original MKV and new re-encoded base video track. If you combine them to a single MKV, you will get 2 valid video tracks:
1. original base + EL + RPU
2. re-encoded base

Then you have somehow tell MakeMKV to keep re-encoded base, but extract DV EL+RPU from another track. This is easy to do technically, the question is about UI. The easiest way probably would be the track ordering as well: if the second track contains Base+EL+RPU, then discard base, extract EL+RPU and inject into first track. Something like that...

Mr_Orange
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:11 am

Re: Official Dolby Vision MKV spec support

Post by Mr_Orange » Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:48 am

mike admin wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:33 am
This however does not solve the re-encoding problem - if you have a proper DV MKV file with a single video track, you can open and re-encode it as base layer in handbrake, but you would end up with original MKV and new re-encoded base video track. If you combine them to a single MKV, you will get 2 valid video tracks:
1. original base + EL + RPU
2. re-encoded base

Then you have somehow tell MakeMKV to keep re-encoded base, but extract DV EL+RPU from another track. This is easy to do technically, the question is about UI. The easiest way probably would be the track ordering as well: if the second track contains Base+EL+RPU, then discard base, extract EL+RPU and inject into first track. Something like that...
It seems like a very, very specific use case!

ghostshadow
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:25 am

Re: Official Dolby Vision MKV spec support

Post by ghostshadow » Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:23 am

Hello, the best of the best would be to be able to extract the RPU as we do with the HDR10 + :D

If Makemkv merges the 2 tracks (BL + EL RPU) directly, to make encodes I wonder if it will work, because in my opinion there is a risk of corrupting the dv metadata when encoding, No?

quietvoid
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:15 pm

Re: Official Dolby Vision MKV spec support

Post by quietvoid » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:02 pm

ghostshadow wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:23 am
Hello, the best of the best would be to be able to extract the RPU as we do with the HDR10 + :D
I'm currently working towards this: https://github.com/quietvoid/dovi_tool/tree/rpu_parsing
Ideally it would be like yusesope's tool (disabling EL for 8.1), and being able to feed it to x265 (can already).
In my opinion it is out of scope for MakeMKV.

ghostshadow
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:25 am

Re: Official Dolby Vision MKV spec support

Post by ghostshadow » Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:26 pm

quietvoid wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:02 pm
ghostshadow wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:23 am
Hello, the best of the best would be to be able to extract the RPU as we do with the HDR10 + :D
I'm currently working towards this: https://github.com/quietvoid/dovi_tool/tree/rpu_parsing
Ideally it would be like yusesope's tool (disabling EL for 8.1), and being able to feed it to x265 (can already).
In my opinion it is out of scope for MakeMKV.
Super you are too strong quietvoid after the hdr10plusparser if you make a software to extract the rpu which works like the hdr10plusparser that would be TOP
that would inform the --dolby-vision-rpu

Post Reply