Choppy Framerate from HD-DVD in MKV at 29.97fps

MKV playback, recompression, remuxing, codec packs, players, howtos, etc.
mike_mgoblue
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:36 am

Re: Choppy Framerate from HD-DVD in MKV at 29.97fps

Post by mike_mgoblue » Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:13 am

d00zah, I was able to get MadVR installed and set up so it appears in MPC-BE. ... However, I'm still having trouble with Shark 007 because of all those advertisements on that page. Any help with Shark 007 would be appreciated.

d00zah
Posts: 588
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:23 pm

Re: Choppy Framerate from HD-DVD in MKV at 29.97fps

Post by d00zah » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:15 pm

I would recommend 1st getting MPC-BE sorted out, ON IT"S OWN, before making things more complex. Even with the additional stuff installed, MPC-BE is still in the mix. Re-read prior suggestions. If your problem actually stems from, say, a laptop display adapter limitation, adding more software won't necessarily fix that. This is NOT a MakeMKV problem & belongs elsewhere.

That said, the codecs MAY solve some playback issues, so here goes...

- Select 'STANDARD Codecs' from the banner at the top of the Shark007 homepage.

- Select 'SETUP AND USAGE' somewhere mid-page.

- Read stuff. The 'Download the STANDARD Codecs' link will take you directly to the MajorGeeks page (safe, file hosting). Either of the 2 mirror links under 'Download locations' will suffice. Below that, he discusses setting file associations so Windows Media Player can play all support file types. This may not seem like a priority, but it's handy when you have problems with your primary player & a sanity check is required.

- Install & follow the detailed instructions, starting with the BRIGHT ORANGE 'After installation, check the box at the bottom for [x] SUGGESTED settings.' text. Throughout the instruction page, common setup problems are discussed along with solutions, links to additional resources, MPC-BE/madVR, HIS SUPPORT FORUM, etc.

NOTE: Shark007 MPC-BE/madVR download is custom, pre-configured to use his codecs. Trying to add madVR to you existing MPC-BE install will probably not go well.

Not all of the steps listed are necessary, but sections begin with 'If you...', so read carefully & if it applies to your situation, do what the man says. Above all else, READ STUFF!!! CAREFULLY.

ince you will still be using MPC-BE & you will need it properly configured, you will probably still need to consult MPC-BE support forums previously listed.

mike_mgoblue
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:36 am

Re: Choppy Framerate from HD-DVD in MKV at 29.97fps

Post by mike_mgoblue » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:38 am

d00zah,

I just thought I would mention this to you because it seems to have more to do with Dolby TrueHD than it does any one particular player.

I turned the 2012 version of Total Recall into a MakeMKV.

I tried watching the 2012 version of Total Recall with MPC-BE. Dolby TrueHD 5.1 is the default audio format. Almost immediately, there started to be "cutouts" in the audio. The "cutouts" in the audio happened in the same spots every time. So, I decided to stop using MPC-BE.

I then decided to try watching the 2012 version of Total Recall with VLC. For about 53 minutes, the Dolby TrueHD 5.1 played fine. But, at 53:39 there was a brief audio "cutout" skip. Then, there was an audio cutout skip again at 1 Hour 14 Minutes 39 Seconds. ... And after that about about 1 Hour 30 Minutes there were six additional audio "cutouts."

It became very clear to me that MPC-BE is not the only player out there that has a problem with Dolby TrueHD. VLC clearly also has problems.

Have you heard of this before? Why does Dolby TrueHD cause such problems with these players? ... I have not yet had the opportunity to download the Shark 007 Codec. But I heard VLC uses its own Codecs.

Also, I switched the audio track to standard Dolby Digital 5.1 using both MPC-BC and VLC and the "audio cutouts" do not occur with either MPC-BE or VLC.

Thank you for your time and help.

d00zah
Posts: 588
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:23 pm

Re: Choppy Framerate from HD-DVD in MKV at 29.97fps

Post by d00zah » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:12 am

mike_mgoblue wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:38 am
Have you heard of this before? Why does Dolby TrueHD cause such problems with these players? ... I have not yet had the opportunity to download the Shark 007 Codec. But I heard VLC uses its own Codecs.
Not Dolby TrueHD, but Atmos:

https://club.myce.com/t/atmos-audio-dro ... ead/399840

Both MPC-BE 'vanilla' & VLC include their own codecs. No my preference.

mike_mgoblue
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:36 am

Re: Choppy Framerate from HD-DVD in MKV at 29.97fps

Post by mike_mgoblue » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:55 pm

Thank you, d00zah.

This would explain why the movie Event Horizon could be played on MPC-BE in Dolby True HD without any audio dropouts - it uses Dolby TrueHD, but not Dolby Atmos.

This would also explain why the movies such as Creed 2, The Nun, and Total Recall from 2012 had audio dropouts - they use Dolby Atmos in the Dolby TrueHD signal.

Does your combination of MPC-BE with MadVR and Shark007 allow Dolby TrueHD with Dolby Atmos to be heard without audio dropouts?

d00zah
Posts: 588
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:23 pm

Re: Choppy Framerate from HD-DVD in MKV at 29.97fps

Post by d00zah » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:12 am

No media to test, but probably no based on MYCE thread. It discusses which players are currently are having positive results.

mike_mgoblue
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:36 am

Re: Choppy Framerate from HD-DVD in MKV at 29.97fps

Post by mike_mgoblue » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:13 am

Hi, d00zah.

I have some updates.

I was able to download the Shark 007 codecs. I literally have to say I would not have been able to do so if you had not given such good instructions. That one website is nothing but a maze of advertisements.

Unfortunately, the Shark 007 and MadVR additions did not change anything when used with MPC-BE. The "audio dropouts" still occur when Dolby TrueHD audio signals containing Dolby Atmos are played. Do you experience these same "audio dropouts" when Dolby Atmos is used?

Also, even with Shark 007 and MadVR, I was never able to make MPC-BE be adjusted in a way that allowed me to change the HDMI output to 24 frames per second for movies - not even in "Full Screen Mode" in "Options." If you can provide specific instructions for changing the framerate of MPC-BE the way you did for downloading Shark 007 codes, that would be great. I say that because I personally think the 24fps versions played at 24hz seen on the Blu-ray look "smoother" than the 29.97 played at 60hz from the laptop MKV file.

Finally, I clicked on the link you gave regarding Dolby Atmos. It actually looks like some of those people found a solution to the incompatibility with Dolby Atmos when using the newest Night LAV and MPC-HC. However, I was unable to get that to work. I successfully downloaded the newest Night LAV and MPC-HC. And I was able to get the newest version of Night LAV to work (even without that second step that the other page does not describe very well, which is difficult to figure out). The "audio dropouts" heard on Dolby TrueHD files with Dolby Atmos still occur in the same exact spots.

It appears the best solution when watching a movie with a Dolby TrueHD audio file containing Dolby Atmos is to switch the audio track to either DTS or AC-3 Dolby Digital. In other words, listen to an audio file that does not contain Dolby Atmos.

I sure do wish someone out there would create a Media Player capable of playing Dolby Atmos, so then we can avoid all these compatibility and confusion problems. Please let me know if you find out about a Media Player capable of playing Dolby Atmos, or if you know if some of the current ones are scheduled to eventually be updated to become compatible with Dolby Atmos.

Thank you for your time and help.

d00zah
Posts: 588
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:23 pm

Re: Choppy Framerate from HD-DVD in MKV at 29.97fps

Post by d00zah » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:59 am

Last answer, as all these are best asked elsewhere... to 'experts'. Good luck!

These are screen caps of the specific madVR settings for auto rate switch:
DisplayModes (Small).jpg
DisplayModes (Small).jpg (58.82 KiB) Viewed 1827 times
Attachments
CustomModss (Small).jpg
CustomModss (Small).jpg (56.16 KiB) Viewed 1827 times

mike_mgoblue
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:36 am

Re: Choppy Framerate from HD-DVD in MKV at 29.97fps

Post by mike_mgoblue » Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:40 pm

d00zah,

I have some interesting updates for you.

First, I had to give up on trying to get MPC-BE and MadVR to display at 24 frames per second. I entered the resolutions of "1920x1080p24" and "1920x1080p23" but nothing would work. In Settings, Windows 10 would have the Desktop resolution at 1600x900, but rather than having 1920x1080 as the resolution for the A/V Receiver, it would be some weird resolutions of 1700 lines of resolution and the image on the HDTV would be letterboxed. It took me a long time to fix this. So, I finally uninstalled MadVR and gave up. ... It would be INFINITELY BETTER if someone out there would just make it so "1080p24" can be selected inside the Player.

Second, for some reason in MPC-BE the "Subtitles" could no longer be displayed. I couldn't figure out what to do, so I uninstalled MPC-BE. I noticed there was a new "2019" version to download. When I downloaded and installed this new version of MPC-BE the subtitles worked again. However, I discovered this new MPC-BE apparently is the one and only Player I have ever used that has solved the problem of "audio dropouts" in Dolby True HD with Atmos. ... Time after time I played Creed 2 and there were no "audio dropouts" in the Dolby Atmos signal. If possible, try giving that version of MPC-BE a try and let me know if your Atmos problems are also solved.

Metallikahn
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:22 pm

Re: Choppy Framerate from HD-DVD in MKV at 29.97fps

Post by Metallikahn » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:44 pm

Just going to throw out my method of making HD-DVD MKV's work the same as Bluray's. It all comes down to the fact that HD-DVD's are 24fps HD files that are encoded with pulldown to make them appear as 29.97fps (this has to do with the fact that not all TV's back then were capable of 24fps progressive playback)

What I do Is simply pull the video track out of the HD-DVD MKV file (while having the pulldown flags removed), Make a new blueray compatible subtitle track (or two if a forced subtitle track is needed), and then remix a new mkv using the new video track, subtitles, and the audio tracks from the original HD-DVD mkv. This works perfect for me and they all play exactly as if it was an actual rip of a blueray disc.

Here's a copy of my workflow (so I can remember what I'm doing as I only get around to doing it every so often):

HD-DVD to Bluray checklist

tsMuxeR:

Load HD-DVD mkv and pull out the video while removing pulldown. Save to cache directory as "movie" video track.ts

Subtitle edit:

Load the movies SRT subtitle file (Download from Open subtitles. Get the ones that match up to the HD-DVD video format you ripped or as close as possible)

Export as Bluray Sup file. (If there is a neccessary forced subtitle track you will need to do it twice)

Change font/size/color as neccessary. Make sure bottom margin is 10% and video size is 1080/24 (I like to drop the brightness a bit on the text and add a shadow. makes it much easier to read and not near as blinding on my OLED)

Select Export All lines and save to cache directory as "Movie" Subtitle (and/or Forced subtitle).sup

MKV Toolnix:

Load the original HD-DVD mkv, the new video track ts, and the sup file/s.

uncheck the original video track and all the built in HD-DVD subtitles.

Name each audio/subtitle track accordingly (to satisfy my OCD) and select no compression for everything (Flag any forced subtitle tracks as needed)

Set destination file as needed.


Check new MKV to make sure it plays back correctly and has working subtitles.

If it Plays correctly, delete all source files and leave the remaining converted movie.


All said and done, I can usually convert a single HD-DVD in under an hour. This process should also work equally well for DVD's with pulldown as well (just use a DVD standard subtitle format in place of the Blueray format when making the new subtitles). That said, when it comes to DVD's I'm finding the better solution to be replacing them with HD or 4K versions as they become available and/or go on sale. Storage is cheap these days. :D

tarzansupplex
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:13 pm

Re: Choppy Framerate from HD-DVD in MKV at 29.97fps

Post by tarzansupplex » Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:21 pm

Metallikahn wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:44 pm
Just going to throw out my method of making HD-DVD MKV's work the same as Bluray's. It all comes down to the fact that HD-DVD's are 24fps HD files that are encoded with pulldown to make them appear as 29.97fps (this has to do with the fact that not all TV's back then were capable of 24fps progressive playback)

What I do Is simply pull the video track out of the HD-DVD MKV file (while having the pulldown flags removed), Make a new blueray compatible subtitle track (or two if a forced subtitle track is needed), and then remix a new mkv using the new video track, subtitles, and the audio tracks from the original HD-DVD mkv. This works perfect for me and they all play exactly as if it was an actual rip of a blueray disc.

Here's a copy of my workflow (so I can remember what I'm doing as I only get around to doing it every so often):

HD-DVD to Bluray checklist

tsMuxeR:

Load HD-DVD mkv and pull out the video while removing pulldown. Save to cache directory as "movie" video track.ts

Subtitle edit:

Load the movies SRT subtitle file (Download from Open subtitles. Get the ones that match up to the HD-DVD video format you ripped or as close as possible)

Export as Bluray Sup file. (If there is a neccessary forced subtitle track you will need to do it twice)

Change font/size/color as neccessary. Make sure bottom margin is 10% and video size is 1080/24 (I like to drop the brightness a bit on the text and add a shadow. makes it much easier to read and not near as blinding on my OLED)

Select Export All lines and save to cache directory as "Movie" Subtitle (and/or Forced subtitle).sup

MKV Toolnix:

Load the original HD-DVD mkv, the new video track ts, and the sup file/s.

uncheck the original video track and all the built in HD-DVD subtitles.

Name each audio/subtitle track accordingly (to satisfy my OCD) and select no compression for everything (Flag any forced subtitle tracks as needed)

Set destination file as needed.


Check new MKV to make sure it plays back correctly and has working subtitles.

If it Plays correctly, delete all source files and leave the remaining converted movie.


All said and done, I can usually convert a single HD-DVD in under an hour. This process should also work equally well for DVD's with pulldown as well (just use a DVD standard subtitle format in place of the Blueray format when making the new subtitles). That said, when it comes to DVD's I'm finding the better solution to be replacing them with HD or 4K versions as they become available and/or go on sale. Storage is cheap these days. :D
So I think this is largely a great workflow- but you do have to specify the frame rate to 23.97 for the audio to be correct? That is what I had luck with in a couple I have tried. I am curious if there is another step I missed? Also, this file still seems to have trouble in Plex, but does work fine on VLC- this is using my apple TV for both

Thanks and sorry for posting on an older thread, but I am trying to rip a bunch of HD-DVDs myself now that I have a larger harddrive

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